paid little league umps banned

[Shubox]

Hi,

I have been lurking for around 3 months now and had to make an account today to chime in on this post.

I am involved with my local little league and am on the board of directors. It is so hard finding umpires to work for the $25 that we can afford to pay a game. We have 450 kids and 4 fields. Our senior field is the same dimensions as wrigley field and we need to pay 2 umpires per game for those. The only free umpires we get is when one of us board members have to step in and ump because no one showed up.

We 2 board members quit the board because they wanted to be paid to umpire. I do not blame them but one of them is the little league district umpire in chief. Kind of a smack to the face to the little league policy of volunteering .

Anyway love the site keep up the discussions some of it is rubbing off

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by noleump

Bob,
Let me guess you are a Little league ump who was paid in gift certificates .
I got a twist to this story now.The umps were told if they pay back the league which paid them they could work in the alstars tournament. Could those leagues then return the returned money into gift certificates ? would this money laundring scheme be okay in little league policy?

Not a good guess. I worked two years of LL in the early 1980s. I got paid.

My point was generally the same as Mark's -- whether you are paid in cash, a check at the game, periodic checks by an association or in "gift certificates" it's pay accoridng to the IRS and should be reported on your tax forms.

[jicecone]

Every year since Jesus played in the first LL world series, (his team of course won), the LL organization has cared more about one thing, than the umps getting paid, their own image, who wins or loses, what is or is not compensation and the good of the sport, and that is, how much revenue they bring from TV.

If you believe otherwise, I got some good land in Florda for a cheap price, just waiting for you to buy.

[kylejt]

I think that is wonderful that the coaches, parents, and league officials donate their time, but umpires are professionals needed to adjudicate the game and should be compensated on a per game basis.

But umpires need not be "professionals". It's not rocket science. IMO, being a Player Agent in a local LL is FAR more complicated and time consuming than working a Majors dish a couple times a week. Not even close.

I've got no problem with anyone taking money for any game, anywhere. But LL can afford to be selective on who umpires games at certain levels because there's a huge pool to choose from.

[noleump]

The reason I started this thread was to hear what you thought about paid umpires told stories about gift certificates were allowed and pay was not allowed. As most of you have pointed out it is the same thing. So why do the guys who recieve gift certificates rat on the guys who got paid?Then they sit at that table in front of everyone(the one where the microphone and trophys are) at the anual banquet and act like their poop dont stink.From what I heard is a policy that is not written anywhere and no person from williamsport will validate.Shame on you!!!!!!!In my book thats called being a hypocrite .
Thanks to all who stayed on topic.
I guess its one of those things where you cant fight city hall.As a bystander I just want to slap those rats who are so called in charge and hug the guys left out of alstars.
Supply and demand is a great analagy for this as one of you pointed out.Perhaps the guys when asked to work next season will say "no f*****n way!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by noleump

The reason I started this thread was to hear what you thought about paid umpires told stories about gift certificates were allowed and pay was not allowed. As most of you have pointed out it is the same thing. So why do the guys who recieve gift certificates rat on the guys who got paid?Then they sit at that table in front of everyone(the one where the microphone and trophys are) at the anual banquet and act like their poop dont stink.From what I heard is a policy that is not written anywhere and no person from williamsport will validate.Shame on you!!!!!!!In my book thats called being a hypocrite .
Thanks to all who stayed on topic.
I guess its one of those things where you cant fight city hall.As a bystander I just want to slap those rats who are so called in charge and hug the guys left out of alstars.
Supply and demand is a great analagy for this as one of you pointed out.Perhaps the guys when asked to work next season will say "no f*****n way!

Or maybe those who accept money will play by the rules.

Anyone who umpires Little League on a regular basis knows what the policies are for their area. If you knew this going in, you know why you weren't selected. If not selected this year, then you know what you have to do next year -- either not accept money or work somewhere else.

[MrUmpire]

You know the policy. You know the practice. You can choose to play, quit or whine. No one has a gun to your head.

LL has encouraged umpires to lie for years. Each year you can find an umpire at the LLWS who has worked for pay.

(Before you ask me what my certificate was good for...I don't work Little League, Pony, USSSSSSSSSSSSSSA or any other little boy baseball.)

[noleump]

If you want to understand my slap to others who belive this malarky. read above posts , wait I'll hightlight it for you.
volunteer umpire #1 makes $350 in gift certificates . Rats on guys who are paid in cash. Sits at head table of anual LL district banquet.Talks about the rule that everyone knows but isnt written anywhere and how it should be followed and if you don't like it get out!!
volunteer umpire #2 makes $350 in cash .Is told fairy tails of rules. sits in the back of the banquet. decides he's not a good umpire and quits.

I feel sorry for both of these types actually!I have worked with both types, and niether is any better thatn the other. One type can hide better than the other type. I have taken a side in this within my district and will probabbly be outcast for standing up for volunteer#2. No big loss.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by noleump

If you want to understand my slap others who belive this malarky. read above posts , wait I'll hightlight it for you.
volunteer umpire #1 makes $350 in gift certificates . Rats on guys who are paid in cash. Sits at head table of anual LL district banquet.Talks about the rule that everyone knows but isnt written anywhere and how it should be followed and if you don't like it get out!!
volunteer umpire #2 makes $350 in cash .Is told fairy tails of rules. sits in the back of the banquet. decides he's not a good umpire and quits.

I feel sorry for both of these types actually!I have worked with both types, and niether is any better thatn the other. One type can hide better than the other type. I have taken a side in this within my district and will probabbly be outcast for standing up for volunteer#2. No big loss.

Yeah. We get it.

Are you an adult? Move on, unless of course you prefer to keep whining.

[noleump]

Mrumpire
I'm 49 ,but probably not an adult by your standards. Who may ask is the "we" in the "we get it"?As for whinning you're right about that. I think in a forum it goes on .So get over it!
My conclusion is you dont want to hear it as it is in our district and all of LL.
The solution to the problem is to walk away from these guys and turn my back on them. I think they did know better. I guess I felt sorry for them because the other ones took gift certificates,which to me sounded as bad.
So will join the gift certificate group and try to get to the big table!!!!NOT!!!!!

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by noleump

The reason I started this thread was to hear what you thought about paid umpires told stories about gift certificates were allowed and pay was not allowed.

Gift certificates, hats, shirts, equipment, hot dogs or cash (which is just as good as money) are all the same. It's compensation for your time. A "thank you", if you will.

I work for a defense contractor, and we have very specific guidelines as to how much of a "thank you" we can give our customers. I think it's down to $5 now. And that's a cheap pen. No more wining and dining the generals and admirals, everything's reportable. LL should have the same standard, IF they wish to be consistent. If not, then they should shut up about it, IMO.

I'm a UIC of a local. I've given NB plate shoes and WV Golds to my volunteer guys. Is that payment? Damn right it is. How about those embroidered Honig's shirt I get for tourney work? Yep. Hats, pins and all the popcorn chicken my patent leather belt will allow. Yes sir, that's payment.

Now, here's my real beef. Why is anyone whining about this? Why are people lining up to do these games, and then complaining about the process to get there? It is what it is. I mean, PAID umpires are in such short supply, and some of you are complaining about being shut out of volunteering for LL games. STFU!

[HokieUmp]

Originally Posted by noleump

Mark
I know this sounds like a joke to some , but to those umps that worked all season some paid games ,some not, only to find out that they cant work alstars is a kick in the (you know what).
Here's a point to ponder .If this is little leaguges policy ,their policy is encouraging the wrong thing is all I'm saying.

Maybe so, but it's also not news, either. H3ll, I've only been back in the US for 18 months, and I'd heard this "news" more than once since then. (Oz just started LL, from what I understand - or, more accurately, LL hasn't been all over the country there yet.) So how much of a kick in the groin is that, really?

So if you want to "rise" to the top at Williamsport, work for free all year. Good luck with that.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by HokieUmp

So if you want to "rise" to the top at Williamsport, work for free all year. Good luck with that.

It doesn't take luck, as there's a huge group of guys/gals that volunteer for decades to get a chance at Williamsport. Supply is not a problem in this equation.

[PeteBooth]

First off these so called "gift certificates" must total $600.00 or greater otherwise they are not taxable.

This was one of the drawbacks when our association changed payment polices. We now get paid directly through one location which means 1099 time.

When were on the "vouchering system" from each school as long as we did not go over $600.00 for that particular school we were fine.

In summary: It depends upon the value of these so called "gift certificates"

Pete Booth

[Rich]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

First off these so called "gift certificates" must total $600.00 or greater otherwise they are not taxable.

This was one of the drawbacks when our association changed payment polices. We now get paid directly through one location which means 1099 time.

When were on the "vouchering system" from each school as long as we did not go over $600.00 for that particular school we were fine.

In summary: It depends upon the value of these so called "gift certificates"

Pete Booth

Just because you don't get a 1099 doesn't mean it's not taxable income. A gift certificate for $20 is just as taxable as a $20 game check. It's ALL taxable. Payments of $600 or more generate a 1099 which means that if you're a tax cheat and don't declare your officiating income, you can't get away with it since it's being reported to the IRS.

But getting a 1099 isn't a problem for those of us who file honest tax returns every year.