Run him, or no.......

BigUmp56 · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 27, 2008, 08:46pm

It seemed like an easy enough call for me last night. Banger at first on a ground ball to F5. The ball short hops F3 and momentarily pops out of his glove before secure possession. Before he gains secure possession the BR touched the bag. It was a close call, and F3 made a great stretch to scoop up the throw. I call the runner safe and as I move to B position the manager yells from the dugout, "There's no way he pulled his foot. Did you call him safe for a pulled foot?"

I turned to him and gave him the signal that I should have given him immediately following the play that F3 bobbled the ball. Now he yells at F3 asking him if he bobbled the ball. F3, being as objective as expected, of course tells him, no he didn't. Now the manager starts yelling at me from the dugout what a terrible call it was, his player didn't bobble the ball, I was out of position, blah..blah...blah. I decided to ignore him, so he charges out of the dugout and again starts yelling, asking me if I'm going to answer him or not. I gave him a polite "that's enough, please go back to your dugout." He says it's a ridiculous call and heads back to the dugout. It was probably one I should have had an ejection for.

Tim.

NEohioref · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 27, 2008, 08:51pm

It was probably one I should have had an ejection for.

You answered your own question if u ask me! I would have tossed him.

SanDiegoSteve · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 27, 2008, 09:03pm

Tim,

I don't mind when they disagree with my call. What pisses me off is when they tell me I'm out of position when I know I'm not, and that they of course know nothing about umpire positioning. I think "you were out of position" is a personal remark, and that's when I would have run him. Then he can come out and act a fool all he wants, because he's already gone.

BigUmp56 · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 27, 2008, 09:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Tim,

I don't mind when they disagree with my call. What pisses me off is when they tell me I'm out of position when I know I'm not, and that they of course know nothing about umpire positioning. I think "you were out of position" is a personal remark, and that's when I would have run him. Then he can come out and act a fool all he wants, because he's already gone.

The coach challenging my positioning was pretty ignorant on his part, Steve. There's only one place to go on a call like this and I was all over it like a fat kid on cake. Then his questioning his fielder if he'd bobbled the ball told me he had no idea what had transpired, and most likely wasn't watching the play at all.

Tim.

SanDiegoSteve · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 27, 2008, 09:10pm

Also I'll add this: You are right, you screwed Fido when you didn't give the "juggling" signal indicating that F3 (aka "The Liar") had bobbled it. Doing it after the coach questioned you made you appear a bit weak to him, so he thought he could rip you a new one for free.

kylejt · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 27, 2008, 09:10pm

If you sold the bobble along with the call, you wouldn't have had the problem.

After that, you shouldn't have been explaining things across the diamond. If he wants to come to you, fine.

UmpireBob · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 27, 2008, 10:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I turned to him and gave him the signal that I should have given him immediately following the play that F3 bobbled the ball. Now he yells at F3 asking him if he bobbled the ball. F3, being as objective as expected, of course tells him, no he didn't. Now the manager starts yelling at me from the dugout what a terrible call it was, his player didn't bobble the ball, I was out of position, blah..blah...blah. I decided to ignore him, so he charges out of the dugout and again starts yelling, asking me if I'm going to answer him or not. I gave him a polite "that's enough, please go back to your dugout." He says it's a ridiculous call and heads back to the dugout. It was probably one I should have had an ejection for.

Well, HTBT, but I can certainly give you credit for patience. However, the moment he stepped out of the dugout, he certainly would have been gone, especially if he charged out like you said.

Fry him, and play ball.

waltjp · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 27, 2008, 11:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I gave him a polite "that's enough, please go back to your dugout."

You warned.

Quote:

He says it's a ridiculous call and heads back to the dugout.

He continued.

There's no one size fits all ejection but I wouldn't have argued if you pulled the trigger. I've said many times before, the only ejections I've ever regreted were the ones I passed on.

BigUmp56 · #9 (**permalink**) Sat Jun 28, 2008, 12:14am

Quote:

Originally Posted by waltjp

There's no one size fits all ejection but I wouldn't have argued if you pulled the trigger. I've said many times before, the only ejections I've ever regretted were the ones I passed on.

You're right, Walt. I must be getting mellow, unlike Ozzy, in my old age. This was the second one I should have bounced in the last two weeks. The first one was an asst. coach that charged onto the field wanting an automatic DP on a play at second, but that's for another thread I suppose.

Tim.

RPatrino · #10 (**permalink**) Sat Jun 28, 2008, 01:18pm

"so he charges out of the dugout and again starts yelling"...BYE BYE....

I don't conduct discussions from dugouts to the field. If they want to talk to me, they call time out and meet me face to face. If they can't do that, I don't talk to them at all. BYE BYE....

UES · #11 (**permalink**) Sat Jun 28, 2008, 02:19pm

You know that you screwed the pooch by not giving the proper mechanic at the time of the play. When you gave it afterwords, it looked like you were making sh!t up. As a result, you going to have to put up with a little crap. I agree that he shouldn't be poppin off from the dugout, but ignoring him and/or just telling him to go back to the dugout isn't going to solve anything either. I will offer this advice as to how to handle the coach when you are partly to blame for the situation ...

When he started popping off after he asked his F3, I would have said,

"Coach, I told you why he was safe now I'm not going to have you poppin off like that from the dugout"

Then when he came out on you looking for an answer, I would have said

"Look coach, I probably should have signaled that he bobbled it at the time of the play... my bad. However, there is no doubt in my mind that F3 did not have possession off ball. It didn't look pretty, but I got the call right."

By admitting a little fault on your part, you'd be surprised at how it can diffuse the situation. This can also save yourself an possible EJ and any paperwork that goes with it.

Inexperienced coaches like to argue long distance - you need to "educate" them that you're not going to have that and shut it down whenever possible. I'm not telling you to bait them into coming out, however, I'd much rather have a conversation face to face then useless shouting from across the field.

Maybe you just need to calmly explain to the coach after the inning and say something like... "Coach, if you want to further discuss a play, then let's get together and we can talk about it... but I can't have you screaming at me from across the field/in your dugout - that's just not productive"

ozzy6900 · #12 (**permalink**) Sat Jun 28, 2008, 02:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

You're right, Walt. I must be getting mellow, unlike Ozzy, in my old age. This was the second one I should have bounced in the last two weeks. The first one was an asst. coach that charged onto the field wanting an automatic DP on a play at second, but that's for another thread I suppose.

Tim.

Heh, heh, heh!