Umpire INT, Rule Clarification?

[ozzy6900]

OBR 5.09 The ball becomes dead and runners advance one base, or return to their bases, without liability to be put out, when—

(b) The plate umpire interferes with the catcher’s throw; runners may not advance.
NOTE: The interference shall be disregarded if the catcher’s throw retires the runner.

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FED 5-1-2c
ART. 2 ... It is a delayed dead ball when:
c. umpire interferes with the catcher who is attempting to throw

FED Casebook
5.1.2 SITUATION C: With R1 on third, R2 on first and no outs, R2 attempts to steal second. F2 is obstructed on his throw to second base by the plate umpire.The throw is cut off by the shortstop and relayed back to the plate in time to retire R1 trying to score.

RULING: If an out was not made at the end of F2's throw, the umpire shall call the ball dead immediately. Both runners shall return to the bases occupied at the time of the interference.

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NCAA Rule 6

Delayed Dead Ball—Runners Return or Advance
SECTION 3. The ball becomes dead and base runners return when:

a. The plate umpire interferes with the catcher’s attempt to throw
anywhere

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Unfortunately, the NCAA penalty is in reference to the batter interfering with the catcher and there is no reference to the umpire interfering in the penalty. I would assume that NCAA will agree with OBR & FED that if the catcher's throw retires the runner, the interference will be ignored.

[dash_riprock]

Like I said, that would make perfect sense, but the rule says perfectly otherwise.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

Like I said, that would make perfect sense, but the rule says perfectly otherwise.

Yes, it is contradictory being under the "Delayed Dead Ball" section and then saying "The ball becomes dead......". I only posted it with the other ones so those without access could view all three. Please let us know what Nick and the others say. Thanks Dash.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Yes, it is contradictory being under the "Delayed Dead Ball" section and then saying "The ball becomes dead......". I only posted it with the other ones so those without access could view all three. Please let us know what Nick and the others say. Thanks Dash.

It was unanimous. If the throw retires the runner, ignore the INT.

[dash_riprock]

When the accepted practice is 180 degrees from the written rule, yes. Good post.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

When the accepted practice is 180 degrees from the written rule, yes. Good post.

When the ruling in every code and the accepted practice in NCAA all line up, commion sense should prevail. Are you saying that you really would have ruled otherwise in a D-1 game had you not chatted with the instructors at your camp?

I had the impression you had more experience than that.

[dash_riprock]

No I wouldn't have done anything (including 'fess up to my INT) unless I deprived the defense of a chance at an out. Then I would probably have a do-over, except for the pitch. I was just bothered by the words in the rule book. I'm anal about that stuff, probably overly so sometimes.

[SanDiegoSteve]

I am a bit confused. Connie Mack, like Mickey Mantle, Stan Musial, and Sandy Koufax leagues, is based on OBR rules, with HS and NCAA safety rules added (and local rules). But otherwise it's OBR. Why is this league different from the general AABC rules?

[umpjong]

As some one said earlier, if the throw retires the runner, then no interference occured. There can be contact without interference. Therefore the delayed dead ball would apply.

[SanDiegoSteve]

If you are playing Connie Mack baseball, this is the rule that applies:

OBR 5.09 The ball becomes dead and runners advance one base, or return to their bases, without liability to be put out, when—

(b) The plate umpire interferes with the catcher’s throw; runners may not advance.
NOTE: The interference shall be disregarded if the catcher’s throw retires the runner.

Why an NCAA book, with all its cockamamy rules, was consulted is a mystery to me. All AABC games use OBR for their main rules base.

[chuckfan1]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

If you are playing Connie Mack baseball, this is the rule that applies:

OBR 5.09 The ball becomes dead and runners advance one base, or return to their bases, without liability to be put out, when—

(b) The plate umpire interferes with the catcher’s throw; runners may not advance.
NOTE: The interference shall be disregarded if the catcher’s throw retires the runner.

Why an NCAA book, with all its cockamamy rules, was consulted is a mystery to me. All AABC games use OBR for their main rules base.

SDSTEVE...
I wasnt "consulting" the college book. I know the rule. It was a few days after the game, and I just thought Id look it up, and see what the exact verbage was.
I realize the OBR book is used. However, I dont have a hard copy of the OBR, and I knew the rule was the same across all codes. I just happened to grab the college book.
So Steve..put down your Colombo overcoat, mystery is solved.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by chuckfan1

SDSTEVE...
I wasnt "consulting" the college book. I know the rule. It was a few days after the game, and I just thought Id look it up, and see what the exact verbage was.
I realize the OBR book is used. However, I dont have a hard copy of the OBR, and I knew the rule was the same across all codes. I just happened to grab the college book.
So Steve..put down your Colombo overcoat, mystery is solved.

Chuck, you can go to MLB Official Rules, bring up each section (they are .pdf files) and save them to your HD and print them.

And Steve is supposed to play Colombo. He paid a lot of money for that coat! Oh Steve, you look marrrrrrrrrrrrrrvelous in that coat!

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by chuckfan1

So Steve..put down your Colombo overcoat, mystery is solved.

Just one more thing....