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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 24, 2008, 11:14am
Do not give a damn!!
 
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I always face the plate. I do not take a peak at anything other than the pitcher and who has the ball. The minute I peak, I will lose a view as to what happen. I will look around if fielders are moving, but that is before the pitcher takes the rubber and usually when nothing is going on.

Peace
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 24, 2008, 11:50am
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When I'm in B with R1 I'm chest up to the 45' line and in middle to short B.

In this position I can look 45deg. (not over my shoulder) at F1 and all the action on the mound as well as home plate and also with just a move of the head (again, without having to look over my shoulder) see the pickoff at first.
The pickoff at first sometimes can be very quick and I don't want to be moving during the tag nor do I want to be looking over my shoulder.
For me, hands on my knees, very stable and just a turn of the head in short to middle B gives me a great angle and a steady look.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 24, 2008, 12:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CO ump
When I'm in B with R1 I'm chest up to the 45' line and in middle to short B.
CO ump,

FYI. That would be contrary to "best practices" as described in the PBUC "red Book" and what is taught at Evans' schools.

JM
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 24, 2008, 12:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etn_ump
5a and 5b...never, NEVER do this!

Watch the ball, nothing happens that is of concern to you without the ball.

Damn, all that time and money spent and I was taught wrong at school.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 24, 2008, 12:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shickenbottom
Etn, pay attention, for the pitcher to toe the rubber, he's going to have the ball. If not, you are going to balk him (all rule codes - with the exception of being after a suspension of play - dead ball, time).

As for the quick glances, are you up to date on your mechanics? Keep you eyes everlastingly on the ball and glance at runners. By taking quick glances, you are anticipating the play possibilities and not being caught off guard.

I am paying attention.

That's why I'm not turning my head to glance at a runner I can hear if he advances. I see no reason to glance and I am seldom caught off guard.

I understand and have read the PBUC Red Book mechanics regarding glancing. I do not glance. When I am in B or C, I am closer to everyone on the field to the ball with the exception of the pitcher. I have ears. I have no reason to glance at a runner I can hear.

At my age, I am going to watch the ball. Absolutely nothing is going to happen that requires my attention without the ball.

Last edited by etn_ump; Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 12:12pm.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 24, 2008, 12:44pm
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It's hard to watch for a foul at the plate, hit batsman, checkswings, balks, etc if you are staring into the dugout.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 24, 2008, 01:37pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)
CO ump,

FYI. That would be contrary to "best practices" as described in the PBUC "red Book" and what is taught at Evans' schools.

JM
I'm certainly willing to change, it's just a practive I've evolved to.
I've never had any evaluations mention it.
I would like to know however what the cons of my approach are and the benefits of the best practices.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 24, 2008, 01:40pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LMan
It's hard to watch for a foul at the plate, hit batsman, checkswings, balks, etc if you are staring into the dugout.
IF you're referring to my post, I would encourage you to read it and comprehend.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CO Ump
In this position I can look 45deg. (not over my shoulder) at F1 and all the action on the mound as well as home plate and also with just a move of the head (again, without having to look over my shoulder) see the pickoff at first.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 24, 2008, 02:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tibear
Just wondering what everyone does with regards to their body position when in position B and C.

I've been told by a couple of evaluators to do different things. (Kind of tells you right there that there is no "right" position.)

The two different positions I've been told are:
1) Alway face the plate.
2) face 3rd base dugout when in B and 1st base dugout when in C

As well, when do you check for runners stealing. Do you cheat and look as the pitcher is throwing? Do you listen for footsteps or defense yelling? Do you simply wait for the catcher or pitcher to begin a throwing motion to a base before starting to get into position to make your call on a stolen base or pickoff?
As per Baseball Canada; Use deep B or C as U3 with R1 only, otherwise regular C would apply. As U1 use Deep B while you are in, R2 or R2,R3 with less than two out. In the two umpire system I wouldn't consider using either deep B or C.

Last edited by tiger49; Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 02:27pm.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 24, 2008, 02:59pm
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I don't see how the pros of checking over the shoulder at R2 outweigh the cons, especially in two man. You're not going to go to towards the 45 foot line until the pitch hits the mitt anyways, so it really does you no extra good to know that R2 is stealing (unless you are caught sleeping, which is a different story that shouldn't happen).

If you peak, you find out he's going, then stand in the same spot until the ball reaches the mitt.

If you don't peak, you don't know he's going, but find out when you hear defense yelling, see F5 moving over out of the corner of your eye, hear footsteps behind you, and even if you don't know after all that, the catcher standing up to throw should be a hint (if you've waited this long, yes, you have lost a step or two).

But, if you peak, you are compromising a check swing appeal, a foul ball off the foot, a balk (granted, not if done correctly), maybe even picking up a ball in play late because of eye movement as your head swivels back.

This all being said, if I was told to look at R2 at school, I wouldn't say boo about it. But if I was writing the Bible of Umpiring, I would say don't do it.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 24, 2008, 04:22pm
ODJ ODJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UmpTTS43
Body square to plate at all times. Once you see the pitcher commited to the plate, take a peak at the runner. When in C, just a quick glance over your right shoulder. When in B, just a quick glance to your left.
Correct.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 24, 2008, 04:25pm
ODJ ODJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TussAgee11
I don't see how the pros of checking over the shoulder at R2 outweigh the cons, especially in two man. You're not going to go to towards the 45 foot line until the pitch hits the mitt anyways, so it really does you no extra good to know that R2 is stealing (unless you are caught sleeping, which is a different story that shouldn't happen).

If you peak, you find out he's going, then stand in the same spot until the ball reaches the mitt.

If you don't peak, you don't know he's going, but find out when you hear defense yelling, see F5 moving over out of the corner of your eye, hear footsteps behind you, and even if you don't know after all that, the catcher standing up to throw should be a hint (if you've waited this long, yes, you have lost a step or two).

But, if you peak, you are compromising a check swing appeal, a foul ball off the foot, a balk (granted, not if done correctly), maybe even picking up a ball in play late because of eye movement as your head swivels back.

Nope. You move with the runner to get the angle as the pitch is being delivered. (Keep your head to the ball just in case.)

This all being said, if I was told to look at R2 at school, I wouldn't say boo about it. But if I was writing the Bible of Umpiring, I would say don't do it.
IF is WHEN.

Save your ink.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 24, 2008, 04:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ODJ
Correct.
Well, we'll just agree to disagree.

If you're so insecure in your abilities as an umpire that you have to peak at R1 or R2, you have more serious issues.

JMHO

Last edited by etn_ump; Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 04:36pm.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 24, 2008, 04:40pm
Rich's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etn_ump
Well, we'll just agree to disagree.

If you're so insecure in your abilities as an umpire that you have to peak at R1 or R2, you have more serious issues.

JMHO
It's how the pro schools teach it. I've always taken a quick glance over the right shoulder with R2. Has nothing to do with my abilities as an umpire.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 24, 2008, 04:49pm
ODJ ODJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etn_ump
Well, we'll just agree to disagree.

If you're so insecure in your abilities as an umpire that you have to peak at R1 or R2, you have more serious issues.

JMHO
I peak (Well, supposed to anyway. Nobody's perfect. ) Usually someone yells runner's going or you can hear him.

JEAPU - PBUC sez peek, ya peek (at R2). I paid $4000 for that tidbit, I'm gonna get my money's worth.

I never understood why guys couldn't just step and turn toward first to see the throw, or the need to show your profile to home plate.

I don't agree to disagree. You're wrong. You can disagree if you want, but you're still wrong. That's what people say without admitting they're wrong.

As Rut says, "Peace"
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