body position for Position B and C

[shickenbottom]

Originally Posted by etn_ump

5a and 5b...never, NEVER do this!

Watch the ball, nothing happens that is of concern to you without the ball.

Etn, pay attention, for the pitcher to toe the rubber, he's going to have the ball. If not, you are going to balk him (all rule codes - with the exception of being after a suspension of play - dead ball, time).

As for the quick glances, are you up to date on your mechanics? Keep you eyes everlastingly on the ball and glance at runners. By taking quick glances, you are anticipating the play possibilities and not being caught off guard.

[justanotherblue]

Originally Posted by etn_ump

5a and 5b...never, NEVER do this!

Watch the ball, nothing happens that is of concern to you without the ball.

Damn, all that time and money spent and I was taught wrong at school.

[PeteBooth]

As others mentioned whether in "B" / "C" I face the plate. The ball will take me to where I need to be. Also, IMO, it could be very detrimental to face first / third because you might get hit with the ball if you are not careful.

I do not listen for footsteps, care about what signals are given etc. As mentioned keep my eye on the ball as ultimately that will take me to where I need to be. Also, if you are facing first / third you could miss a balk call.

Pete Booth

[tiger49]

Originally Posted by tibear

Just wondering what everyone does with regards to their body position when in position B and C.

I've been told by a couple of evaluators to do different things. (Kind of tells you right there that there is no "right" position.)

The two different positions I've been told are:
1) Alway face the plate.
2) face 3rd base dugout when in B and 1st base dugout when in C

As well, when do you check for runners stealing. Do you cheat and look as the pitcher is throwing? Do you listen for footsteps or defense yelling? Do you simply wait for the catcher or pitcher to begin a throwing motion to a base before starting to get into position to make your call on a stolen base or pickoff?

As per Baseball Canada; Use deep B or C as U3 with R1 only, otherwise regular C would apply. As U1 use Deep B while you are in, R2 or R2,R3 with less than two out. In the two umpire system I wouldn't consider using either deep B or C.

[TussAgee11]

I don't see how the pros of checking over the shoulder at R2 outweigh the cons, especially in two man. You're not going to go to towards the 45 foot line until the pitch hits the mitt anyways, so it really does you no extra good to know that R2 is stealing (unless you are caught sleeping, which is a different story that shouldn't happen).

If you peak, you find out he's going, then stand in the same spot until the ball reaches the mitt.

If you don't peak, you don't know he's going, but find out when you hear defense yelling, see F5 moving over out of the corner of your eye, hear footsteps behind you, and even if you don't know after all that, the catcher standing up to throw should be a hint (if you've waited this long, yes, you have lost a step or two).

But, if you peak, you are compromising a check swing appeal, a foul ball off the foot, a balk (granted, not if done correctly), maybe even picking up a ball in play late because of eye movement as your head swivels back.

This all being said, if I was told to look at R2 at school, I wouldn't say boo about it. But if I was writing the Bible of Umpiring, I would say don't do it.

[ODJ]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

I don't see how the pros of checking over the shoulder at R2 outweigh the cons, especially in two man. You're not going to go to towards the 45 foot line until the pitch hits the mitt anyways, so it really does you no extra good to know that R2 is stealing (unless you are caught sleeping, which is a different story that shouldn't happen).

If you peak, you find out he's going, then stand in the same spot until the ball reaches the mitt.

If you don't peak, you don't know he's going, but find out when you hear defense yelling, see F5 moving over out of the corner of your eye, hear footsteps behind you, and even if you don't know after all that, the catcher standing up to throw should be a hint (if you've waited this long, yes, you have lost a step or two).

But, if you peak, you are compromising a check swing appeal, a foul ball off the foot, a balk (granted, not if done correctly), maybe even picking up a ball in play late because of eye movement as your head swivels back.

Nope. You move with the runner to get the angle as the pitch is being delivered. (Keep your head to the ball just in case.)

This all being said, if I was told to look at R2 at school, I wouldn't say boo about it. But if I was writing the Bible of Umpiring, I would say don't do it.

IF is WHEN.

Save your ink.

[HokieUmp]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

But, if you peak, you are compromising a check swing appeal, a foul ball off the foot, a balk (granted, not if done correctly), maybe even picking up a ball in play late because of eye movement as your head swivels back.

This all being said, if I was told to look at R2 at school, I wouldn't say boo about it. But if I was writing the Bible of Umpiring, I would say don't do it.

Okay, first off, I "peaked" years ago, more than likely. Either that, or I never did, and never will. Moving on.....

Tuss, just how long do you thnk the peek lasts? It's not like I - as one that peeks - am trying to track the runner's progress all the way to the next base. Whether I'm looking for R1 stealing 2B or R2 stealing 3B, I don't make the look until I'm assured F1 is delivering the ball to the plate, and I turn my head and turn back.

If the ball isn't delivered to the plate at the point I've determined it's time to glance, then it's bloody well a balk, so I haven't missed that. And I don't have anyone throwing 115mph heat, so I don't miss the check swing or the foul off the batter, or any of that other stuff. I'm not looking away long enough, nor is the ball there fast enough, for it to be a problem.

Maybe you've seen someone do it, and don't like it, but I don't have the issues you mention with missing other stuff.

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by HokieUmp

Okay, first off, I "peaked" years ago, more than likely. Either that, or I never did, and never will. Moving on.....

Tuss, just how long do you thnk the peek lasts? It's not like I - as one that peeks - am trying to track the runner's progress all the way to the next base. Whether I'm looking for R1 stealing 2B or R2 stealing 3B, I don't make the look until I'm assured F1 is delivering the ball to the plate, and I turn my head and turn back.

If the ball isn't delivered to the plate at the point I've determined it's time to glance, then it's bloody well a balk, so I haven't missed that. And I don't have anyone throwing 115mph heat, so I don't miss the check swing or the foul off the batter, or any of that other stuff. I'm not looking away long enough, nor is the ball there fast enough, for it to be a problem.

Maybe you've seen someone do it, and don't like it, but I don't have the issues you mention with missing other stuff.

Well, I played around with it today... 16 year old Mickey Mantle League game (AAU teams mainly).

I quickly realized that when in C the runner would get to directly behind by back on his secondary lead. Can't peek over the right shoulder from there... so I figured my C position must have been very off, and moved myself closer to 2nd. Does this sound right?

Then, there were some peeks where I could see the runner, and others where I never did (because he wasn't getting a big secondary, or because he was 2 steps behind the baseline) making my peek back obsolete. Does this ever happen?

I also realized that in a Deep B with 2 outs, it is very easy to peek at an R2. And in B, also easy to peak at R1.

But where I was getting a good peek at R2 was really from a deep C, not C at all. From where C is, I'd have to turn my head 180 degrees to see the kid...

What am I doing wrong, if anything?

(edited for the difference between peak and peek, for all the peekers of this peak performance post).

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Well, I played around with it today... 16 year old Mickey Mantle League game (AAU teams mainly).

I quickly realized that when in C the runner would get to directly behind by back on his secondary lead. Can't peek over the right shoulder from there... so I figured my C position must have been very off, and moved myself closer to 2nd. Does this sound right?

Then, there were some peeks where I could see the runner, and others where I never did (because he wasn't getting a big secondary, or because he was 2 steps behind the baseline) making my peek back obsolete. Does this ever happen?

I also realized that in a Deep B with 2 outs, it is very easy to peek at an R2. And in B, also easy to peak at R1.

But where I was getting a good peek at R2 was really from a deep C, not C at all. From where C is, I'd have to turn my head 180 degrees to see the kid...

What am I doing wrong, if anything?

(edited for the difference between peak and peek, for all the peekers of this peak performance post).

I just took a peek at your post. I don't advocate peeking in B at R1, nor do I believe in working B with 2 out and R2 (different discussion). The only reason for the peek in C with R2 is to get a good jump on the best angle for the play at third, and getting as close as possible to the foul line. You're only going to get a couple steps closer to the line, but at least you don't get flat-footed and end up lookiing straight up the runner's behind on the steal. It isn't really necessary to actually locate R2 when you glance over your right shoulder, and you never need to glance over your left. It only matters whether or not he's going. If you look and he's not going, then you let the ball take you where you need to look.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Then, there were some peeks where I could see the runner, and others where I never did (because he wasn't getting a big secondary, or because he was 2 steps behind the baseline) making my peek back obsolete. Does this ever happen?

Assuming your "C" position is correct, it's NOT "wrong" to not see the runner -- that means he's not going. If you do see the runner, and he's moving, then he's going (if he's not moving, he's far off the base and you might see a throw from F2 or a pick-off attempt on the next pitch).