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-   -   body position for Position B and C (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/45792-body-position-position-b-c.html)

tibear Tue Jun 24, 2008 08:31am

body position for Position B and C
 
Just wondering what everyone does with regards to their body position when in position B and C.

I've been told by a couple of evaluators to do different things. (Kind of tells you right there that there is no "right" position.)

The two different positions I've been told are:
1) Alway face the plate.
2) face 3rd base dugout when in B and 1st base dugout when in C

As well, when do you check for runners stealing. Do you cheat and look as the pitcher is throwing? Do you listen for footsteps or defense yelling? Do you simply wait for the catcher or pitcher to begin a throwing motion to a base before starting to get into position to make your call on a stolen base or pickoff?

LakeErieUmp Tue Jun 24, 2008 08:37am

Plan A is to steal the third base coach's signals. Lacking that, I've tried to not cheat and just wait for a throw. As someone said once (or a few million times) there's no play without the ball.

eagle_12 Tue Jun 24, 2008 08:39am

When in "B" with runner on first. I'm facing pitcher with my left foot barely dropped back towards baseline. My chest isn't really facing the pitcher or the batter but rather the distant space between the two. In "B" two outs runner on third, my chest points to the back of the pitcher.

In "C" My left foot is dropped slightly again with my chest pointing more towards the pitcher rather than the batter.

tibear Tue Jun 24, 2008 08:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by LakeErieUmp
Plan A is to steal the third base coach's signals. Lacking that, I've tried to not cheat and just wait for a throw. As someone said once (or a few million times) there's no play without the ball.

I've seen a couple of umpires get into trouble watching coaches give signs, only to find out that there is a pickoff going on that they aren't even aware of. Everyone is looking at the BU waiting for his call and he sort of stands there with a glassy eyed look and usually a weak safe call. :)

Emperor Ump Tue Jun 24, 2008 08:45am

In both B & C I'm square to the plate. I find it helps my mechanics of stepping in (towards the 45') then "opening the gate" to get the best angle.

I tried not being square and it cheated me from getting the better angle.

As for stealing, I listen for the foot steps and the defense yelling, but keep my eye on the ball.

UmpTTS43 Tue Jun 24, 2008 08:57am

Body square to plate at all times. Once you see the pitcher commited to the plate, take a peak at the runner. When in C, just a quick glance over your right shoulder. When in B, just a quick glance to your left.

UmpJM Tue Jun 24, 2008 09:06am

As Emperor Ump and UMPTTS43 suggest, always "square to the plate".

When in "C", I was taught to do a quick "shoulder check" on the R2 when the pitcher commits to pitch. I find I rarely do this in actual practice.

I stay square to the plate until the ball reaches the catcher or hits the bat (or batter).

When I see the pitcher or the catcher begin an attempt to throw out a runner, I keep my eyes on the player with the ball and start moving into position to make the call, and let the throw "turn me" towards the play.

JM

David B Tue Jun 24, 2008 09:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tibear
I've seen a couple of umpires get into trouble watching coaches give signs, only to find out that there is a pickoff going on that they aren't even aware of. Everyone is looking at the BU waiting for his call and he sort of stands there with a glassy eyed look and usually a weak safe call. :)


That would be true, but only with an idiot baserunner. A baserunner takes his signs while on the base so that's really should not be too much of an issue.

I like to try and figure out the signs just for fun, especially in a low key game.
Now in a big game, I'm all eyes, watching the F1.

As far as steals, I would say experience is the key, and since I don't do "small ball" anymore, the players will help you. Either F3 or F4 or F6 will say "he's going". Then you will hear the footsteps etc.,

That allows you to keep your eyes focused on F1 for the potential balk.

Even if you were to get fooled, you are in great position to see the play at either 3rd or 2nd so its' not that huge of a problem.

Thanks
David

shickenbottom Tue Jun 24, 2008 09:12am

1) Face the plate in either B or C. Legs a bit over shoulder width apart, comfortable. It is easier to react to a batted ball right at you by going either forward left or forward right with your body directly facing this situation, than being squared to a baseline.

2) Pitcher not on rubber, relaxed standing. Watch pitcher for illegal action, listen for runner / fielders getting position.

3) Pitcher toes rubber and goes to look in to get sign. Drop into Hands on knees set, watch pitcher, glance / listen for runners.

4) As Pitcher is comming set, shift weight slightly forward onto balls of feet, this gets you ready to react to batted ball, or pickoff at bases.

5a) In B with R1, as pitcher begins motion to pitch, get a quick glance (shift of eyes to R1 to see if he's going, shift eyes back to home plate and watch action at home.

5b) In C with R2, as pitcher begins motion, swivel head to glance at R2 and see what he's doing, if going, begin to step toward 45 on 3rd base line and swivel head back to home to watch action. If R2 is not going, swivel head back and watch action at home.

bob jenkins Tue Jun 24, 2008 09:34am

"B" and "C", I'm facing the plate.

Deep "B" and Deep "C", I'm more parallel to the baseline / grassline.

PeteBooth Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:19am

Quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by tibear
Just wondering what everyone does with regards to their body position when in position B and C.

I've been told by a couple of evaluators to do different things. (Kind of tells you right there that there is no "right" position.)

The two different positions I've been told are:
1) Alway face the plate.
2) face 3rd base dugout when in B and 1st base dugout when in C

As well, when do you check for runners stealing. Do you cheat and look as the pitcher is throwing? Do you listen for footsteps or defense yelling? Do you simply wait for the catcher or pitcher to begin a throwing motion to a base before starting to get into position to make your call on a stolen base or pickoff?


As others mentioned whether in "B" / "C" I face the plate. The ball will take me to where I need to be. Also, IMO, it could be very detrimental to face first / third because you might get hit with the ball if you are not careful.

I do not listen for footsteps, care about what signals are given etc. As mentioned keep my eye on the ball as ultimately that will take me to where I need to be. Also, if you are facing first / third you could miss a balk call.

Pete Booth

etn_ump Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by shickenbottom
1) Face the plate in either B or C. Legs a bit over shoulder width apart, comfortable. It is easier to react to a batted ball right at you by going either forward left or forward right with your body directly facing this situation, than being squared to a baseline.

2) Pitcher not on rubber, relaxed standing. Watch pitcher for illegal action, listen for runner / fielders getting position.

3) Pitcher toes rubber and goes to look in to get sign. Drop into Hands on knees set, watch pitcher, glance / listen for runners.

4) As Pitcher is comming set, shift weight slightly forward onto balls of feet, this gets you ready to react to batted ball, or pickoff at bases.

5a) In B with R1, as pitcher begins motion to pitch, get a quick glance (shift of eyes to R1 to see if he's going, shift eyes back to home plate and watch action at home.

5b) In C with R2, as pitcher begins motion, swivel head to glance at R2 and see what he's doing, if going, begin to step toward 45 on 3rd base line and swivel head back to home to watch action. If R2 is not going, swivel head back and watch action at home.

5a and 5b...never, NEVER do this!

Watch the ball, nothing happens that is of concern to you without the ball.

UmpJM Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:35am

etn_ump,

FYI, from the PBUC "Red Book":

Quote:

...Also, with a runner on 2B, it is an optional mechanic for the base umpire to take a quick glance over his right shoulder the moment the pitcher commits his delivery to the plate. ...This is an optional mechanic and is not required but is permissible.
JM

mbyron Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins
"B" and "C", I'm facing the plate.

Deep "B" and Deep "C", I'm more parallel to the baseline / grassline.

Me too.

I don't "sneak a peek" at R2 much. I find that I have sufficient time to get my angle on 3B based on what I hear and see.

shickenbottom Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by etn_ump
5a and 5b...never, NEVER do this!

Watch the ball, nothing happens that is of concern to you without the ball.

Etn, pay attention, for the pitcher to toe the rubber, he's going to have the ball. If not, you are going to balk him (all rule codes - with the exception of being after a suspension of play - dead ball, time).

As for the quick glances, are you up to date on your mechanics? Keep you eyes everlastingly on the ball and glance at runners. By taking quick glances, you are anticipating the play possibilities and not being caught off guard.

:mad: :mad: :mad:


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