Bases Awarded??

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

slowballbaker,

The R1 is awarded 3B.

JM

And subject to being out on appeal if he doesn't go back and touch first base.

[RPatrino]

Slow ball, the reason is: First play by an infielder - 2 bases from time of pitch, (TOP). Second play by an infield or first by an outfielder, 2 bases from Time of Throw, (TOT). Now, the fact that R1 was at 2nd base at the time of the catch is immaterial, because he did not legally obtain that base.

[mbyron]

TOP or TOT is immaterial, since both would be from 1B.

Also, your post doesn't tell the guy which it is in this case (it's TOT, since the first play was catching the pop fly).

Finally, R1 was not at 2B in the OP, he was between 1B and 2B.

Not your best contribution, RP.

[mbyron]

More controversial is the case where R1 is past 2B when the ball goes out of play. The award is 2 bases from TOT, but do you award him home (since he's past 2B) or 3B (2 bases from the last base legally touched)?

No need to answer -- there's whole threads on this one you can search for.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mbyron

TOP or TOT is immaterial, since both would be from 1B.

Also, your post doesn't tell the guy which it is in this case (it's TOT, since the first play was catching the pop fly).

"Catching the ball" isn't the "first play." And, PBUC / MLBUM make it clear that the award is from TOP.

[RPatrino]

MB, I wasn't trying to tell the OP how to rule on the play, I was "reviewing" for his edification, the basics. The way I read the OP, R1 had "run all the way to 2nd base". Sorry to disappoint you..(wink).

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

Now, the fact that R1 was at 2nd base at the time of the catch is immaterial, because he did not legally obtain that base.

If the runner was on or beyond 2B when the ball became dead, he could not legally re-touch 1B and would be out on proper appeal, even if he did go back and re-touch 1st.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

If the runner was on or beyond 2B when the ball became dead, he could not legally re-touch 1B and would be out on proper appeal, even if he did go back and re-touch 1st.

Only in FED rules. In OBR/NCAA, he most certainly can (and must) return, retouching all bases on the way or be subject to appeal.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Only in FED rules. In OBR/NCAA, he most certainly can (and must) return, retouching all bases on the way or be subject to appeal.

NCAA 8.6. a. A.R. 2
OBR 7.10 AR(2):

"When the ball is dead, no runner may return to touch a missed base or the one just left if the runner has advanced to and touched a base beyond the missed base."

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

NCAA 8.6. a. A.R. 2
OBR 7.10 AR(2):

"When the ball is dead, no runner may return to touch a missed base or the one just left if the runner has advanced to and touched a base beyond the missed base."

What it means is:

If the runner advances AFTER the ball has become dead, he may not return.

The FED rule is:

If the runner is beyond the base WHEN the ball becomes dead, he may not return.

(And, yes, the OBR rule could be better written.)

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

What it means is:

If the runner advances AFTER the ball has become dead, he may not return.

That's not what the rule says. It says the runner cannot re-touch during a dead ball if he HAS ADVANCED to the next base. I don't see how this could be interpreted any other way.