Calling what you see or what they see

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by danreeves1973

On the dead ball call, I was taught to say that while calling HS ball with a TASO chapter. Is this a regional preference, deadball vs time or is time what is used in the pro's?

If you call "Dead Ball" in one of my classes, we hold a funeral for the ball, I deliver a eulogy and we "bury" the ball in your shirt until the next break!

[UmpJM]

ozzy,

I was helping teach at a "youth umpire" clinic earlier this season, and one of my colleagues was demonstrating how to "kill it" when a runner interferes with a protected fielder attempting to field a fair batted ball.

He held up both hands and said (forcefully), "DEAD BALL!"

While conducting our "post-clinic" over adult beverages, I suggested that "TIME!" would be a more proper vocalization (following ANY event other than an uncaught foul ball) to indicate that the ball was no longer in play.

Anyway, I posted a "poll" on the subject on Rob Drake's website, and of the 43 respondents, 39 said they used "TIME!" exclusively, 2 said they used "Dead Ball", and 2 said they used each, depending on the situation.

During the year, I had the opportunity to work a Varsity DH with one of the other instructors. He had the plate the 2nd game, a batter was HBP and he came out from behind the plate, threw both hands in the air, declared "DEAD BALL!", and pointed the batter to 1B with his left hand.

He then looked at me, rolled his eyes, and gave a discreet "my bad" chest tap. When he got back behind the plate. He made a sign of the cross in front of his chest and bowed his head. I was cracking up.

Later in the game, another batter was HBP, and this time he came out with a big "TIME!" - he then looked at me, and I gave him the secret "good call" sign and HE started cracking up. A fun day at the ballfield.

JM

[chuckfan1]

Whats the conundrum? Either case.."ya just gotta umpire". Usually your first instinct is the right call. You see the ball hit him, give him first. Who put the ball there? The defense. You see it hit him, he gets first. What, now we are going to determine by how much the ball hits him? It either did or didnt. The OC wants him to keep batting this time, but another time if its the #9 hitter, he will be all over you if you dont put him on first. The spot in the line-up shouldnt dictate whether or not he gets first. As well as if anyone else saw it or not. You did, he goes to first.

As for the other sitch, well, same thing. The ball hit you, call time, and handle it. Probably either way on that one coach or the other will be upset. But hey, it happens sometimes. Despite your best efforts to do the macarena and get out of the way, the ball finds you. Again, we are not going to determine how much of the batted ball hit the umpire. It did or didnt.

[danreeves1973]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

If you call "Dead Ball" in one of my classes, we hold a funeral for the ball, I deliver a eulogy and we "bury" the ball in your shirt until the next break!

I got it, I see it, i understand it , I will not pronouce a ball to be dead from this point hence.

Unless the cover gets knocked off, dog takes it or it kills an errant seagull swooping down.

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by danreeves1973

I got it, I see it, i understand it , I will not pronouce a ball to be dead from this point hence.

Unless the cover gets knocked off, dog takes it or it kills an errant seagull swooping down.

Dan,

Careful there....

If the cover gets knocked off the ball, the ball remains in play until the continuous action of the play relaxes.

If a dog takes it, the ball remains in play until the dog enters DBT.

If it kills an errant seagull (unless it's a "pitch" at the time it does so), the seagull may be dead, but the ball remains in play.

Really.

JM

[DG]

Originally Posted by danreeves1973

Have had two situations this year where I called something no one else saw. Caught grief both times and while that doesn't bother me, it's made me think about the idea of calling what you see and know vs calling what everyone else percieves.

#1. Lt handed batter, pitch is way outside, he steps in to avoid, I track the pitch and see it BRUSH the back of his leg, pants were baggy and it definitely moved the fabric. I call dead ball, kid is saying, No I didn't get hit, coach is saying he didn't get hit. I explain what I saw, take your base. Coach is mad I just put his best hitter on base.

#2 I'm in C, playing inside the base path, ball hit hard on the ground toward me, I step to avoid and it takes a strange hop and I feel it brush my leg, it keeps going, F6 misses it behind me and it's heading merrily to the outfield. I yell dead ball, eveyone stops, I announce I was hit, award bases, etc, offense is mad because bases were loaded and it was a double at least. Between innings I ask my partner what he saw, he says he thought I dodged it and he never saw the ball veer like it had richocheted off me.

Two situations where I was apparantly the only one who saw something that impacted the game. In both cases I could have ignored what I saw and felt and no one would have known. I feel though if I'm going to do this job and have any integrity as an umpire, I have to call what I see and not what is percieved by the players, coaches etc.

Any thoughts?

Good questions. Often, you are the only one who sees something that should result in a call.

#1 Did it brush the loose fabric or hit his leg? Make a call and stick to it. Do you give a sh*t whether coach is mad about a call?

#2 Why ask your partner when you know the ball hit you? He can't add to that info. If you don't call it and are asked by defensive coach are you going to lie about it? Where do you draw the line on ethics?

And by the way, don't get hit by batted balls...

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by mbyron

There is no situation where I will announce "Dead Ball!"

Pro instruction is to call "Time!" or "Foul Ball!" (as appropriate).

Pro instruction is to call "Time!" or "Foul!" (as appropriate).

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Dan,

Careful there....

If the cover gets knocked off the ball, the ball remains in play until the continuous action of the play relaxes.

If a dog takes it, the ball remains in play until the dog enters DBT.

If it kills an errant seagull (unless it's a "pitch" at the time it does so), the seagull may be dead, but the ball remains in play.

Really.

JM

You sure about the dog? I had it happen once in a youth game and once I say that the dog had "control" of the ball, I gave the sign for spectator's interference and placed the runners. I never got an argument from anyone on the field and my assigner said that he felt that was the right thing to do. But now I wonder........?!?!?

[UmpJM]

ozzy,

Well, to be honest, no, I'm not sure about the dog.

I was simply going by:

Originally Posted by MLBUM

6.15 BALL STRIKES BIRD OR ANIMAL
If a batted or thrown ball strikes a bird in flight or other animal on the playing field, the ball is considered alive and in play, the same as if it had not touched the bird or animal. If a pitched ball strikes a bird in flight or other animal on the playing field, the pitch is nullified and play shall be resumed with the previous count.

Were it to actually occur in a game I was working, I suspect (hope) I would treat it as "spectator interference" as well - plus, then I'd get to use the cool spectator interference mechanic which I've never had the opportunity to use.

JM

[Four-Oh]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Dan,

Careful there....

If the cover gets knocked off the ball, the ball remains in play until the continuous action of the play relaxes.

If a dog takes it, the ball remains in play until the dog enters DBT.

If it kills an errant seagull (unless it's a "pitch" at the time it does so), the seagull may be dead, but the ball remains in play.

Really.

JM

And if a pig takes it and eats it, it's an "inside-the-pork" home run!
A.

[lawump]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

ozzy,

I was helping teach at a "youth umpire" clinic earlier this season, and one of my colleagues was demonstrating how to "kill it" when a runner interferes with a protected fielder attempting to field a fair batted ball.

He held up both hands and said (forcefully), "DEAD BALL!"

While conducting our "post-clinic" over adult beverages, I suggested that "TIME!" would be a more proper vocalization (following ANY event other than an uncaught foul ball) to indicate that the ball was no longer in play.

Anyway, I posted a "poll" on the subject on Rob Drake's website, and of the 43 respondents, 39 said they used "TIME!" exclusively, 2 said they used "Dead Ball", and 2 said they used each, depending on the situation.

During the year, I had the opportunity to work a Varsity DH with one of the other instructors. He had the plate the 2nd game, a batter was HBP and he came out from behind the plate, threw both hands in the air, declared "DEAD BALL!", and pointed the batter to 1B with his left hand.

He then looked at me, rolled his eyes, and gave a discreet "my bad" chest tap. When he got back behind the plate. He made a sign of the cross in front of his chest and bowed his head. I was cracking up.

Later in the game, another batter was HBP, and this time he came out with a big "TIME!" - he then looked at me, and I gave him the secret "good call" sign and HE started cracking up. A fun day at the ballfield.

JM

And its stories like this...that are the reason I umpire

[lawump]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Dan,

Careful there....

If the cover gets knocked off the ball, the ball remains in play until the continuous action of the play relaxes.

If a dog takes it, the ball remains in play until the dog enters DBT.

If it kills an errant seagull (unless it's a "pitch" at the time it does so), the seagull may be dead, but the ball remains in play.

Really.

JM

I agree with 1 & 3...but I don't know about #2. Seems to me it is INTENTIONAL interference by authorized personnel (assuming the dog is the team mascot!). Rule 3.15...I'm killing the ball immediately!

Also, I believe an additional penalty at the end of playing action is that the player killing the seagull has to be arrested in tribute to Dave Winfield.

LOL