How much do you take before calling a T?

[SeahawkSanders]

Me? I have a long fuse, and as long as the coach is just talking to me and not trying to show me (or my partner) up, I ignore it (unless it's extreme).

I was pretty lucky this season and didn't throw ANY T's. I should've stuck at least one coach though.

It was a tight game, and his team was trailing by 1 with 10 seconds left. His kid shoots and gets blocked (imo). Coach goes ballistic and is out on the court repeatedly saying "How can you not call that?" as I'm reporting my foul (his team quickly fouled the other team after the block). He was out on the court a bit almost past half court. There was 1.9 seconds left and I ignored it.

I shouldn't have. He deserved a T, no doubt about it. After the game the JV coach (he was the freshman coach), came and apologized to me on his behalf, saying that he's never coached before this season and never even played the game. He also said it was a good no-call (as did my partner and the AD).

At the time, the coach made me doubt myself and I felt that if I really did miss that call and cost them the game, then maybe I deserved my verbal beating.

Long rant, but I was just wondering how you learn to draw the preverbial line. In 3 seasons I've only given 2 T's out (nearly 200 games). I have to toughen up on that I know, but I'm not sure how to do that...but I'm sure I'll learn.

How did you do it, or were you always able to treat a T as just another call (great mind-seat...I just have to get there).

[Almost Always Right]

Sanders - That is legitimate quandry that all of us go through(and some are still going through it).
1st things 1st - Read Rule 10 Sect 5 - The Coaches Rule
That will give you a foundation.
Some little things to remember:

If bench personnel is distracting you or your partner, they are out of control and need to be acknowledged.

If it is personal.

Know the buzzwords in 10.5 - Disrespectful / Unsporting / Unsportsmanlike / Inciting / Attempting to influence. . .etc. These can make the communication regarding these situations short and simple.

There are many other aspects in which I am sure people on here will respond with but this should give you a little bit of assistance in your plight to set your boundaries.

Good Luck
AAR

[JRutledge]

I do not think there is any easy way to answer this question. It all depends on who is complaining. What they are complaining about. How they are complaining. And finally what the tone of the compliant is. All subject to change depending on how the game is going.

Peace

[Mark Padgett]

You mean there's officials who actually "take" something at all from a coach before they call a T? You've got to be kidding.

[bradfordwilkins]

Refereeing primarily intermurals, I get more than my share of moaning and groaning. As long as its not distracting, I'll normally let it go. I take pride in really emphasizing trying to teach players quickly if its a rule they aren't sure about...i.e. calling a foul for moving someone back 2 feet while boxing out. Kids seem to think thats what you're supposed to do when you box out.

Intermurals is filled with the idea of warnings. However, one immediate thing that does not get a warning is any cuss word directed at me or my partners. A cuss word for a missed shot or something like that will normally get a warning as well... but directed to me means T.

Just my humble thoughts

[SF]

If you leave the game wishing you had given a T, you most likely should have. Give warnings - but you have to back them up by enforcing them, if necessary. Don't let coaches get personal or distract you.

I know that I got the best idea of what deserves a T and what does not by working with a more experienced partner. Seeing what he let slide and what he T'd up gave me good guidelines to build off of.

I'm guessing if you have only given out 2 T's in 200 games, you might be taking more abuse than you should.
But what do I know? Maybe you just have amazingly good sportsmanship out there.

[ref18]

Not much

I don't take much, as soon as I see the coach starting to come close to the line, which basically means voicing displeasure at calls/no calls, I'll talk to him, then he's free game for his warning, and then WHACK!!!

[ref18]

Originally posted by SF
If you leave the game wishing you had given a T, you most likely should have.

Great advice, this was the advice I recieved from an evaluator at a camp I was at in my rookie year which started the legend of the Whacinator

[RollTide]

I have a very long fuse too (probably because I coach American Legion baseball and have a better 'appreciation' for coaches views of officials just as I have a better appreciation for officials when I'm coaching since I'm also an official).

I haven't given any T's to a coach this year either. And yes, I should've once or twice. I let one coach yell across the floor at me and get away with it. The only reason I let him get away with it was because I wasn't sure he was yelling at me til it was too late. Afterwards, he didn't give me another reason to stick him.

The other possible time came during a County tournament game, semi-finals. The 2 schools are HUGE rivals. They didn't play each other during the regular season this year because of how 'bad' things got during their last game of the season last year. So, this would be the only time this year they would be playing. Lucky me, I had the 'privilege' of officiating this game, knowing how much bad blood there is going in.

We had a great game, by far the most energy in a gym I've ever experienced. Standing room only was exhausted, not an open place to sit or stand in the gym. Atmosphere was awesome.

We get down to less than 2 minutes. Close game (4 points). The team leading is shooting the front end of a 1-n-1. I was the calling official and was now C opposite the table. As soon as the ball is out of the shooter's hand, the defensive player under the goal steps in the lane. The ball isn't even close to the rim yet. I go out with my arm for the delayed lane violation. Sure enough, free throw is missed. 'tweet'. I called it. (I had already had 2 delayed violations on the other end, however, both times the free throws were made so I hadn't called one yet).

As soon as the coach realized what I had called, he called a full timeout. I knew he would want me to talk to me. Sure enough, he motions for us to come over. We got there, coach starts talking (big man, talks fast). He made a couple of comments then he pointed his finger at each of us. My 1st instinct was to whack him. But, immediately something triggered me to withhold my whistle, stop the coach, for the sole reason of letting the kids decide the game on the court.

I realize the coach should've thought about that before pointing his finger at us. To make a long story short, the kid knocks down both free throws after the timeout to put his team up by 6. By the 40 second mark, the game was tied and the team whose coach deserved the T was shooting two. Missed both 'em, other team gets the rebound, goes down and hits a 3 and goes on to win by 7 (by hitting free throws the rest of the way).

Our state evaluator was at the game and came in and talked to us after the following game (we had a VB DH that night). He told us that even though the coach deserved the T, he thought we did a good job by not giving it to him considering the game situation as well as how it would have probably incited the crowd in a negative way to boot.

I've even run into quite a few people from the team (fans of the school) that won and they bring that game up. This incident has been brought up each and every time, and every person has said they thought we did a great job in holding our whistles so that the kids could decide the outcome.

I'll probably get scratched by the coach that deserved the T next year (he's already requested to our assignor that none of the 3 in our crew that night have another of his games this year). Upon hearing this, the 1st thought that came to my mind was "heck, if he's gonna scratch us anyway, I wish I would've stuck him". But, within a few seconds, my thinking changed. If I had it to do over again, I would do it the exact same way. I let the coach have too much rope and I'm the one taking the hit in the end, but, everybody in the stands (and that heard about the game) knows that I had no input in determining the outcome of the game. We left that entirely up to the kids, and we did it without a riot breaking out, lol.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by RollTide

But, immediately something triggered me to withhold my whistle, stop the coach, for the sole reason of letting the kids decide the game on the court.

Our state evaluator was at the game and came in and talked to us after the following game (we had a VB DH that night). He told us that even though the coach deserved the T, he thought we did a good job by not giving it to him considering the game situation as well as how it would have probably incited the crowd in a negative way to boot.

I've even run into quite a few people from the team (fans of the school) that won and they bring that game up. This incident has been brought up each and every time, and every person has said they thought we did a great job in holding our whistles so that the kids could decide the outcome.

I let the coach have too much rope and I'm the one taking the hit in the end, but, everybody in the stands (and that heard about the game) knows that I had no input in determining the outcome of the game. We left that entirely up to the kids, and we did it without a riot breaking out, lol.

I think you need to find a new avocation. It maybe might be a good idea for you to stick to coaching. If you're as worried as what you seem to be about what the fans in the stands think, then you got no business being on the floor as an official. We're not in the business of trying to keep the fans happy.

Your state evaluator needs to grow some balls too if he's worried about a call inciting the fans. Whointhell cares what the fans think? Lah me.

You're not "letting the kids decide the game". You're inventing excuses for not giving out a warranted "T".

Jmo, whether you like it or not.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Feb 11th, 2005 at 09:54 PM]

[RollTide]

Question for you Jurassic:

Have you ever coached?

[RollTide]

Another bit of info, unless you know the whole situation, please don't tell me I don't belong on the court.

Our evaluator has told me (on more than one equation) that I need to do a better job of paying attention to the sidelines, bench, coaches. I guarantee this guy has more 'balls' than you, or most of the officials throughout the country as far as that goes. BTW, he didn't mention anything about a T inciting the fans, but I heard quite a few others that did say that. I might've included that part of the story in the wrong context.

Since we're using our own opinions here, I'll stick to mine, which is, I think it took a lot bigger set of 'balls' to keep from sticking the coach in that situation.

Also, when the game is in progress, I could care less what any fan in the gym thinks. The comment I made about the fans is what they've told me since the game was over. If you read my post, I said the sole reason I didn't issue the T was to let the kids decide the outcome of the game on the court.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by RollTide
Question for you Jurassic:

Have you ever coached?

Yup, several sports when I was younger. I can honestly say too that I never wanted officials on my games that I thought wouldn't control the game either, or ones that were worried about what the coaches or fans had to say, or officials that I thought that I might be able to intimidate. If I could intimidate him, then I knew damnwell the other coach could intimidate him also--especially if the other coach had that as part of his game plan. Personally, I never believed in "working" the officials and I refused to do so. I was always leery though about the guys that seemed to be out there trying to make their calls according to how much flak they thought they might get. It was just my feeling that I never could depend on them to make the "tough" call- whether that "tough" call also happened to be a "fair" call- and even if the call went against me.

Sorry, coach, I just can't agree with your officiating philosophy.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by RollTide


Our evaluator has told me (on more than one equation) that I need to do a better job of paying attention to the sidelines, bench, coaches.

You really should listen to your evaluator.

[RollTide]

You're entitled to your opinion. At the same time, this evaluator had watched/observed 6 games I had worked over the past 3 weeks (including one other official written evaluation). Outside of a couple of minor mechanics/positioning mistakes, the duties I had consistently been the most inconsistent as far as game management had dealt with handling the coaches/bench (box and allowing an assistant to stand during the game that we didn't catch, as well as our crew allowing a coach to yell at us without any of us at least putting up a stop sign).

Knowing that the evaluator was there, knowing that handling coaches/bench has been my major weakness in the eyes of my evaluator, and still not whacking the coach was going to be treading on thin ice with the evaluator. However, when he came in and said he agreed with not sticking him in that situation because of the entire situation (animosity, hostility, degree of sportsmanship and effort that the kids and coaches had displayed throughout the entire game, all in one), made me appreciate the fact that our evaluator agreed with our decision (each of us individually, as we didn't have time to concur about the situation...thankfully, all three of us working are very level headed).

Also, I'm not the type of official that gets intimidated. I'm friends with the majority of coaches around this area. That is probably one reason I don't have many needs to be throwing out T's, because most coaches don't get out of line in my games. They know when I'm officiating I have a job to do and I will do it. If it means in order to do my job something negative will go their way, they know something negative is coming their way. They know they can't expect any preferential treatment (if I'm their friend but not friends of the opposing coach). At the end of the game, whether they win or lose, they know I was only doing my job, and they know we'll still be friends.

In fact, in the game that has been discussed, I'm a lot better friend with the coach that didn't point his finger at us than I am with the one that did. And that fact never crossed my mind in the moment the situation happened.

I can tell you from a coaches standpoint, because I've been there, when it's crunchtime and the game is on the line, I don't want anything that could be even the slightest bit controversial from an official to be handed to me. I prefer the official to stay out of the way and let the players determine the outcome, just as I did when I played (any sport).