Calling

[WestMichBlue]

Since this was brought up in a thread below but was not the subject of the thread I thought that I would start a new one.

I always call the batter out on a caught 3rd strike; conversely, if the batter is not called out she better be running.

When the pitch comes in and the batter swings and misses, I have nothing to say. Instead, if it is in the zone, then I am going to call (probably forceably) "steeeryke."

THEN --- I am going to look into the glove for the ball; when I know that it is a legal catch I am going to call the batter out. And it if is not a legal catch, but runner at 1st etc., then I am still going to call it.

As a coach I taught my girls to come out of the box hard on a third strike (assuming no one on 1st, or 2 outs) and keep going until the umpire called her out. I don't think that the player should be looking around trying to determine if a legal catch was made. That is the umpire's job.

Your thoughts please.

[Dakota]

I never call the "batter out" unless she runs on a caught strike 3, or if she runs with 1B occupied and less than 2 outs.

I do have a "strike three" call that is different, but I never verbalize the "batter out" except as above.

[bluezebra]

"I always call the batter out on a caught 3rd strike; conversely, if the batter is not called out she better be running.

When the pitch comes in and the batter swings and misses, I have nothing to say. Instead, if it is in the zone, then I am going to call (probably forceably) "steeeryke."

THEN --- I am going to look into the glove for the ball; when I know that it is a legal catch I am going to call the batter out. And it if is not a legal catch, but runner at 1st etc., then I am still going to call it."

Doing this, the batter will be confused. She could be all the way to first before you decide if the pitch was caught.

On a swing and miss, it's proper mechanics NOT to verbalize, unless it's the third strike. Called strikes are supposed to be verbalized. It's improper mechanics to call the batter out on a third strike, unless she takes off for 1B when the base is occupied with less then two outs.

Bob

[gsf23]

Well, it has been my experience that if the ball gets away from the catcher on a third strike, it is usually a swinging third strike. I don't believe you are to verbalize on a swinging third strike. If the ball does get away, I'm not going to be standing there giving a strike three call. My mask is comming off and I am getting out of the way. That should be indication enough for the batter to start running. The only time I would verbalize a batter is out is if he/she took off running when they shouldn't be. I don't verbalize any call, out or safe, unless it is a bang bang play that needs to be sold. If it is an obvious out or safe just make the sign and keep quiet. MHO.

If it is just a plain dropped third strike, well, it's not the umpires job to tell tell a batter if they should or should not run. The batter should be responsible for picking up the ball after their swing.

[Edited by gsf23 on Nov 15th, 2002 at 08:23 AM]

[Elaine "Lady Blue"]

I would handle this the same as gsf23, no verbal on a swing and a miss, just the signal. If the catcher misses the ball, off with the mask, bail to the opposite direction and be ready to trail the batter-runner if proper. (depending on where other base runners are)
But, if it's a swing and a miss AND a legally caught ball, or 1st base is occupied with less than 2 outs, I loudly say strike three, batter is out, so there is no question.
I've found there are still coaches out there that tell the girls to run to 1st no matter what.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by Elaine "Lady Blue"
I've found there are still coaches out there that tell the girls to run to 1st no matter what.

This is good coaching at 12U. Batters need to have the 3rd strike rule drummed into their head to override their "I-just-struck-out-head-down-drag-bat-back-to-the-dugout" funk.

[whiskers_ump]

I agree with Tom. Coaches tell the gals to run even in the
14U age group. Good coaching. Catcher's are suppose to be
aware of the situtation. If they throw and ball gets away,
and runs score, you can bet that the catcher will be more
aware in future, cause coach is gonna see to that. Now if
that runner continues and rounds 1B, and play is made you
probably got interference.

glen

[Skahtboi]

Originally posted by whiskers_ump
Coaches tell the gals to run even in the
14U age group. Good coaching.
glen

Conversely, I had this idea of "good coaching" work against a team yesterday. Runner on first, pitch comes in for a called strike three. Catcher doesn't drop the pitch and returns the ball immediately to the pitcher, as the runner, doing as she had been coached, takes off for first running down the line. The runner on first steps off the bag about three or four steps and just stands there, while the pitcher has the ball in the circle. Guess what we called?

Scott

[Dakota]

Sure, it's not perfect coaching, but the younger ages need to develop a reflex / instinctive reaction to a strikeout that the play is not necessarily over. Drilling into them to run every time is one way to help them remember.

Besides, I doubt that the coach told the runner on 1st to take a lead and stand there.

[whiskers_ump]

It may have worked against the offense, however, look what
it did for the defense. Got the out. Catcher did her job
and was rewarded. Glad someone is working. I start again
next week.

glen

[Skahtboi]

Well Glen...in this neck of the woods there are just two more weekends of tournaments then everything that I know about is over until the first of February when high schools start having their warm-ups!

This past weekend was a little tough. Never got above 50 degrees and the wind was blowing out of the north at a gazillion miles per hour. I stayed bundled up all day Saturday, and was so glad to finally hit the van last night at 10:30. As I was leaving the ball fields I passed a bank sign that said the temperature then was 36.

Scott

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Dakota
Sure, it's not perfect coaching, but the younger ages need to develop a reflex / instinctive reaction to a strikeout that the play is not necessarily over. Drilling into them to run every time is one way to help them remember.

Besides, I doubt that the coach told the runner on 1st to take a lead and stand there.

I understand what is being said, but why not just try to instill the rule into their brain? Being aware of any situation should be an important trait in any athlete. This is apparent in the upper levels of softball as the only place you see a batter who just struck out run is to the dugout.

Isn't youth ball SUPPOSED to be just as much about teaching and training as it is putting runs on the board? (don't tell the youth coaches I made such an obscene suggestion or there will be hell to pay)

[WestMichBlue]

It's improper mechanics to call the batter out on a third strike, unless she takes off for 1B when the base is occupied with less then two outs.

Bob
**********************************************
1. It is an umpire's responsibility to signal a runner out. Absence of being called out should indicate to the player that she can continue to play.

2. A Batter is NOT out on a third strike. She must be PUT OUT. The simpliest and most obvious out occurs when F2 catches the pitch IN FLIGHT (or 1st is occupied etc). If that doesn't happen, then she must be put out by tagging (her or the base) or when she leaves the field of play.

3. Example: With 1st open, or with 2 outs, and the batter misses the third strike - if the ball is caught in flight you call her out. Period. She knows to go to the dugout. If the ball touches the ground before being caught, you say nothing. If she walks towards the dugout you say nothing. When she passes through the fence you call her OUT. If she does not go through the fence, but suddenly breaks for first, and beats the throw she is safe.

My point is that by consistantly calling the batter out when she is out, and saying nothing when she is not out, you create a clear understanding to both the defense and offense as the current game status. Batter knows whether to leave the field or run. Catcher knows whether to tag or throw to first, or to throw back to the pitcher.

Finally, the batter is not a judge as to whether a ball was caught IN FLIGHT and can not always know whether she is out or not. That is your job.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by WestMichBlue
It's improper mechanics to call the batter out on a third strike, unless she takes off for 1B when the base is occupied with less then two outs.

Bob
**********************************************
1. It is an umpire's responsibility to signal a runner out. Absence of being called out should indicate to the player that she can continue to play.

2. A Batter is NOT out on a third strike. She must be PUT OUT. The simpliest and most obvious out occurs when F2 catches the pitch IN FLIGHT (or 1st is occupied etc). If that doesn't happen, then she must be put out by tagging (her or the base) or when she leaves the field of play.

3. Example: With 1st open, or with 2 outs, and the batter misses the third strike - if the ball is caught in flight you call her out. Period. She knows to go to the dugout. If the ball touches the ground before being caught, you say nothing. If she walks towards the dugout you say nothing. When she passes through the fence you call her OUT. If she does not go through the fence, but suddenly breaks for first, and beats the throw she is safe.

My point is that by consistantly calling the batter out when she is out, and saying nothing when she is not out, you create a clear understanding to both the defense and offense as the current game status. Batter knows whether to leave the field or run. Catcher knows whether to tag or throw to first, or to throw back to the pitcher.

Finally, the batter is not a judge as to whether a ball was caught IN FLIGHT and can not always know whether she is out or not. That is your job.

Actually, speaking ASA, Bob is correct. The call on a strike not contacted with the bat is simply "Strike". Not "strike three", or "out" or "bang" or anything else, just "strike".

If the player (no longer a batter and has not qualified as a BR) takes off toward 1B when the DTS is not applicable, then you state, hopefully in a crisp, legible voice, "BATTER'S OUT!"

Not saying your way is wrong for whatever you do WMB, but this is the mechanics by the book.

Also, while the batter may not be completely sure what to do, s/he has two coaches out on the field to help and they are doing the player a disservice if they just scream "run" everytime a batter strikes out.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
Not saying your way is wrong for whatever you do WMB, but this is the mechanics by the book.

Yup. The "ASA Way" is to place greater emphasis on strike three, but not to call "out."

Quoting from the ASA Umpire Manual,

Say Strike only. If it is strike three, then emphasis should be placed on the three. Never say, "Strike three, you're out."