Balk or not?

[kcmasterpiece]

Rec league using NFHS rules. RH pitcher in set position with R1 on 1B. Pitcher picks NPF straight up and in a continuous motion, without hesitation or feint to any other base, pivots and throws to 1B. Coach hollers for balk, but since NPF didn't break back plane & as described, no balk was called. Having difficulty trying to find the specific language in Rule 6 that says this is illegal. Any help?

[w_sohl]

Originally Posted by kcmasterpiece

Rec league using NFHS rules. RH pitcher in set position with R1 on 1B. Pitcher picks NPF straight up and in a continuous motion, without hesitation or feint to any other base, pivots and throws to 1B. Coach hollers for balk, but since NPF didn't break back plane & as described, no balk was called. Having difficulty trying to find the specific language in Rule 6 that says this is illegal. Any help?

As long as the NPF doesn't break the plane of the rubber he can pick it up and turn and has to throw to first. He can't feint to first if he doesn't first disengage.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by kcmasterpiece

Rec league using NFHS rules. RH pitcher in set position with R1 on 1B. Pitcher picks NPF straight up and in a continuous motion, without hesitation or feint to any other base, pivots and throws to 1B. Coach hollers for balk, but since NPF didn't break back plane & as described, no balk was called. Having difficulty trying to find the specific language in Rule 6 that says this is illegal. Any help?

The problem for RH pitchers throwing the 1B is that by rule they must step "directly toward the base." LH pitchers can get away with picking their free foot straight up, as long as it comes down toward 1B. That's why most RH pitchers use a jump step or jump turn to throw to 1B. I'd have to see the move, I think.

I do know that a coach who "hollers" for a balk won't stick around long.

[bob jenkins]

Here's my answer from yesterday's thread on this very topic:

This comes up on the boards from time to time. If the foot or knee moves toward third or towards the "balance point" (coach speak), then F1 is committed to throw to the base being faced, home or second -- he can't throw to the base behind him (first, for a RH pitcher).

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Here's my answer from yesterday's thread on this very topic:

This comes up on the boards from time to time. If the foot or knee moves toward third or towards the "balance point" (coach speak), then F1 is committed to throw to the base being faced, home or second -- he can't throw to the base behind him (first, for a RH pitcher).

Right. From the RH set position, try to pick up your foot without your foot AND your knee moving toward 3B. This explains why I was leaning toward balking this move. Thanks, Bob.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Here's my answer from yesterday's thread on this very topic:

This comes up on the boards from time to time. If the foot or knee moves toward third or towards the "balance point" (coach speak), then F1 is committed to throw to the base being faced, home or second -- he can't throw to the base behind him (first, for a RH pitcher).

I ain't buying that.

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by rei

I ain't buying that.

rei,

I am. Why/which part ain't you buyin'?

JM

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Here's my answer from yesterday's thread on this very topic:

This comes up on the boards from time to time. If the foot or knee moves toward third or towards the "balance point" (coach speak), then F1 is committed to throw to the base being faced, home or second -- he can't throw to the base behind him (first, for a RH pitcher).

I'm not buying it either!

If a RHP raises his leg and goes with continuous motion to first, he is clean. In order to do that, F1 has to start turning toward the 45 foot line while he is raising his free foot. That rarely happens because pitchers are not trained correctly.

The balk occurs when F1 raises his leg and hesitates or stops (which is what most youth pitchers try to get away with). There is no question here. My problem comes when people try to put ridiculous restrictions on a RHP while letting the LHP get away with murder (and you all know what I am talking about)! As long as the RHP is moving and turning, he okay.

[bigda65]

Ozzy help me out,

Are you saying that with R1 and RHP from set, lifts his knee (lets say above waist high) in a continuous motion, then spins to first and throws, this is not a balk?

[Tim C]

I thought we had put this to bed already.

It seems that without a video clip it is hard to explain.

MLB verbiage is probably the best:

When a RH pitcher goes to first on a pickoff without disengaging his first step with his left foot must be "distinct and direct".

This means as soon as the RH pitcher lifts his left foot the very next movement must be towards the area of first base.

A pitcher cannot lift his leg to any appreciable height, even if smoothly, as that is deemed to be two distinictive movements and therefore a balk.

While this is clear in my mind I am sure others find it confusing.

Regards,

[charliej47]

I'll use the definition given to be at the clinics I have gone to. The Foot Must Gain Ground!

Having said this, if he raises his NPT in a step toward 1st base, then he is going. If he does anything else it is a balk.

He can raise his leg and have the knee pointing toward 2nd and he can pitch or go to 2nd.

If after he has raised his knee, he goes to 3rd, it is a balk.

[David B]

Originally Posted by Tim C

I thought we had put this to bed already.

It seems that without a video clip it is hard to explain.

MLB verbiage is probably the best:

When a RH pitcher goes to first on a pickoff without disengaging his first step with his left foot must be "distinct and direct".

This means as soon as the RH pitcher lifts his left foot the very next movement must be towards the area of first base.

A pitcher cannot lift his leg to any appreciable height, even if smoothly, as that is deemed to be two distinictive movements and therefore a balk.

While this is clear in my mind I am sure others find it confusing.

Regards,

Thanks Tim, very clear and makes it make sense.

That's what Bob was talking about above, just in a different way, at least from what I read.

thansk
David

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by rei

I ain't buying that.

It's a reasonable (at least in my mind) paraphrase of the statement in the NCAA book. And, this rule is the same in all codes.

[bossman72]

Was the move similar to this move?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0qcHzAGDeY

[mbyron]

That's from Evans's balk video. I see YouTube's copyright protection policy is not user friendly...