Crafty cheating coach

[NYBLUE]

In ASA softball, each runner who occupies a base other than their original base after the TO shall be declared out and the coach/manager ejected.

If there were 3 runners on the basepaths and all 3 of them switched bases....
you'd have 3 outs!

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by NYBLUE

In ASA softball, each runner who occupies a base other than their original base after the TO shall be declared out and the coach/manager ejected.

If there were 3 runners on the basepaths and all 3 of them switched bases....
you'd have 3 outs!

Relevance?

[NYBLUE]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Relevance?

None, really.

Just pointing out the rules difference.

[Pete in AZ]

Bob would only be right if the league was using Fed rules. You can't cite that book in other leagues without getting laughed at.

Once the ball is in play, you need an appeal to apply anything. I once saw a coach switch batters while the defensive team was busy taking care of kids who was injured while chasing a fall fly ball. I was at 3 away from the injury and saw the HC call the batter over and sub another while the new pitcher warmed up and the injured kids were tended to. My partners didn't even catch it until the half inning was up.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by Pete in AZ

Bob would only be right if the league was using Fed rules. You can't cite that book in other leagues without getting laughed at.

Once the ball is in play, you need an appeal to apply anything.

If you're looking for an OBR citation that says a runner passing a proceeding runner has to be appealed for an out to be called I suggest not spending too much time looking because it's not there..........


Tim.

[Pete in AZ]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

If you're looking for an OBR citation that says a runner passing a proceeding runner has to be appealed for an out to be called I suggest not spending too much time looking because it's not there..........


Tim.

Okay, let's back up a bit Tim. Time has been called. During that conference, you see that the runners have been switched and you are going to make them change before the ball is put in play? No??? Are you going to wait until the ball is back in play and then kill it and try to enforce a penalty? The other team didn't notice the switch but you are going to now involve yourself in the game. That's not your job, Tim. You may as well turn in your mask and chest protector if you believe it is. It is nothing until you are asked.

[socalblue1]

Originally Posted by Pete in AZ

Okay, let's back up a bit Tim. Time has been called. During that conference, you see that the runners have been switched and you are going to make them change before the ball is put in play? No??? Are you going to wait until the ball is back in play and then kill it and try to enforce a penalty? The other team didn't notice the switch but you are going to now involve yourself in the game. That's not your job, Tim. You may as well turn in your mask and chest protector if you believe it is. It is nothing until you are asked.

Pete,

You are wrong on every count. A significant percentage of the current rules were written in response to cheating or taking advantage of holes in existing codes.

Nothing here is an appeal play - if the umpires see the cheating prior to making the ball live, fix it & eject 3B coach. If for some reason it's missed before the ball is made live, get the outs and eject 3B coach and runners.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by socalblue1

Pete,

You are wrong on every count. A significant percentage of the current rules were written in response to cheating or taking advantage of holes in existing codes.

Nothing here is an appeal play - if the umpires see the cheating prior to making the ball live, fix it & eject 3B coach. If for some reason it's missed before the ball is made live, get the outs and eject 3B coach and runners.

Exactly. This is not BOOT or a missed base or a leaving early violation where the defense is required, by rule, to be vigilant. And there is no chance this is an innocent mistake, either. The defense should be able to be confident that runners will not switch positions on the bases.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Pete in AZ

The other team didn't notice the switch but you are going to now involve yourself in the game. That's not your job, Tim. You may as well turn in your mask and chest protector if you believe it is. It is nothing until you are asked.

On the contrary. This is the fundametnal role of the umpire....to see that neither side receives an advantgage not intended by rule.

Toss the no good cheat of a coach (an oxymoron?) and if discovered while the ball is still dead, fix it. If the ball was made live, ring up the runners.

[umpduck11]

Originally Posted by Pete in AZ

Okay, let's back up a bit Tim. Time has been called. During that conference, you see that the runners have been switched and you are going to make them change before the ball is put in play? No??? Are you going to wait until the ball is back in play and then kill it and try to enforce a penalty? The other team didn't notice the switch but you are going to now involve yourself in the game. That's not your job, Tim. You may as well turn in your mask and chest protector if you believe it is. It is nothing until you are asked.

If, during an offensive conference, the coach switched R2 with a removed substitute, would you also require the defense to "appeal" that move ? Or would you handle it if you noticed it ?

[socalblue1]

Originally Posted by umpduck11

If, during an offensive conference, the coach switched R2 with a removed substitute, would you also require the defense to "appeal" that move ? Or would you handle it if you noticed it ?

Depends on the rule set. May be a legal sub not announced or may be an illegal sub. In most cases I would call the sub to the attention of the PU (Or if PU call over the offensive HC) to see what's up.

If this was an illegal sub take the appropriate action based on rule set. An ejection is not out of the question is head rat gives any BS.