Q from a 1st year: Crafty inbounds play.

[ca_rumperee]

Hi all, new to the board. Been monitoring for the past week or so.

My first year of HS, after just one year of CYO (mostly very young) and some adult rec and hs training over the summer.

I've done about 15 games so far, mostly GJV, but more boys games coming up.

Anyways, late in a close JV game on an inbounds from the endline, I hand the ball to A1 then step back watching action in front of me. A1 throws the ball off of the back of B1 (who was facing the other way), it bounces back to A1, and A1 lays it in. I was not expecting this in the least, but I did have A1 with one foot down inbounds before he touched the ball coming off of B1, so I let it go as a legal play. One foot inbounds (with other in the air) was all he needed, right?

Then, with Team B feeling "used and abused" by the play, I had B1 step out of bounds with the ball, turn and then pass to B2 who was coming back as if he should be the one to inbound the ball. B2 proceeded to walk over the endline, turn and pass the ball in to B3. It took a moment to process, but I called a throw-in violation. In retrospect, it should either have been a travel on B2, or an out-of-bounds violation if he stepped on endline prior to travelling.... I think.

Team B was pretty shell shocked by this sequence, but recovered to win the game.

[BktBallRef]

If a player is touching inbounds and has not part of his body touching OOB, he is inbounds.

As for B's inbounds play, yes, sometimes kids don't realize that once B1 has the ball and is OOB, he's now the thrower.

Both calls were correct.

[BillyMac]

From BkBallRef: "Once B1 has the ball and is OOB, he's now the thrower".

From ca_rumperee's original post, I assumed, possibly incorrectly, that the second play happened immediately after the first play, that being said, after Team A had scored, Team B would be able to "run the endline", and, in the five allowed seconds, all five players could take turns at being the thrower, passing, or handing, the ball to each other, while out of bounds. If I'm reading ca_rumperee's post correctly, I have an out of bounds violation on B-2 for receiving a throwin pass while inbounds, and then touching out of bounds, or, if B-2 takes too many steps, for traveling before he, or she, steps out of bounds.

[ca_rumperee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

From BkBallRef: "Once B1 has the ball and is OOB, he's now the thrower".

From ca_rumperee's original post, I assumed, possibly incorrectly, that the second play happened immediately after the first play, that being said, after Team A had scored, Team B would be able to "run the endline", and, in the five allowed seconds, all five players could take turns at being the thrower, passing, or handing, the ball to each other. If I'm reading ca_rumperee's post correctly, I have an out of bounds violation on B-2 for receiving a throwin pass while inbounds, and then touching out of bounds, or, if B-2 takes too many steps, for traveling before he, or she, steps out of bounds.

yup.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

From BkBallRef: "Once B1 has the ball and is OOB, he's now the thrower".

From ca_rumperee's original post, I assumed, possibly incorrectly, that the second play happened immediately after the first play, that being said, after Team A had scored, Team B would be able to "run the endline", and, in the five allowed seconds, all five players could take turns at being the thrower, passing, or handing, the ball to each other, while out of bounds. If I'm reading ca_rumperee's post correctly, I have an out of bounds violation on B-2 for receiving a throwin pass while inbounds, and then touching out of bounds, or, if B-2 takes too many steps, for traveling before he, or she, steps out of bounds.

BillyMac, I sure wish you'd learn how to use the quote feature.

I didn't know I had to spell it out for you but I guess I can since you didn't understand the short version. I was addressing his original play. When B1 has the ball OOB, he is the thrower. He remains the thrower unless B2 steps OOB and is passed the ball. He cannot pass it to B2 while he is inbounds and then allow B2 to go OOB and become the thrower. That's a violation.

Now, was it really necessary to have to write all that out?

BTW, nothing you wrote makes my statement false.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

That's a violation.

Ignoring, for now, a possible travel, is it a throw in violation, or an out of bounds violation?

I believe that, as posted originally, this is a simple out of bounds violation. How can it be a throw in violation if the thrower simply passed the ball to a player who was inbounds when he received the throw in pass. If that's the case, how can the original poster's throw in violation be correct, as BktBallRef stated?

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Both calls were correct.

[BktBallRef]

BillyMac, I couldn't care less whether it's a throw-in violation or an OOB violation.

If one foot is inbounds and one foot is OOB, it's a throw-in violation, because he's not Completely OOB when he catches the ball.

If one foot is inbounds and he steps OOB, it's an OOB violation, because he's inbounds and steps OOB.

I have no idea which happened.

The important thing is he correctly called a violation. Feel free to figure it out. Either way, A gets the ball.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

If one foot is inbounds and one foot is OOB, it's a throw-in violation, because he's not completely OOB when he catches the ball.

Absolutely correct.

Another scenerio for new officials: If this were a designated spot throwin, and B-2 got completely out of bounds before having the ball handed to him, or her, by B-1, this would also be a throwin violation.

[lmeadski]

but, following a made basket, cannot the "thrower" pass it to another player that is also out of bounds and then subsequently inbound the ball?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by lmeadski

but, following a made basket, cannot the "thrower" pass it to another player that is also out of bounds and then subsequently inbound the ball?

Absolutely can. But that's not the scenario discussed...

[BillyMac]

"Run The Endline" ??

Originally Posted by BillyMac

After Team A had scored, Team B would be able to "run the endline", and, in the five allowed seconds, all five players could take turns at being the thrower, passing, or handing, the ball to each other, while out of bounds.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Absolutely can. But that's not the scenario discussed...

Didn't the original poster clarify that B Teams inbound play happened after A's made basket? So if that's the case, if B1 has the ball for a throw-in and passes this throw-in ball to B2 who has one foot inbound and one oob, then B2 can continue oob to complete the throw-in. So in this scenario, it does matter if B2 has one foot in and one out.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

Didn't the original poster clarify that B Teams inbound play happened after A's made basket? So if that's the case, if B1 has the ball for a throw-in and passes this throw-in ball to B2 who has one foot inbound and one oob, then B2 can continue oob to complete the throw-in. So in this scenario, it does matter if B2 has one foot in and one out.

Joe,

If B2 has one inbounds when B1 passes him the ball, it would be a throw-in violation.

And the scenario was about B2 passing from OOB to B1 who was inbounds, so the OOB pass scenario is different than the one described.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

It does matter if B2 has one foot in and one out.

I thought I had this play straight in my head, including all variables that could happen, until the post above. Now I'm confused again.

If B-2 catches the throw in pass with two feet on the ground, one foot IB, one foot OOB, is B-2 considered to be inbounds, or out of bounds???

I'm leaning toward out of bounds, and if that's the case, on a "run the endline" throwin, should we let B-2 continue his, or her, trip out of bounds to become the legal second thrower???

If B-2 is considered to be inbounds........wait, how can B-2 be considered inbounds if they have one foot out of bounds???

I'm so confused???

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I thought I had this play straight in my head, including all variables that could happen, until the post above. Now I'm confused again.

If B-2 catches the throw in pass with two feet on the ground, is B-2 considered to be inbounds, or out of bounds???

I'm leaning toward out of bounds, and if that's the case, on a "run the endline" throwin, should we let B-2 continue his, or her, trip out of bounds to become the legal second thrower???

If B-2 is considered to be inbounds........wait, how can B-2 be considered inbounds if they have one foot out of bounds???

I'm so confused???

It doesn't matter where B2 is considered in this scenario (though I consider B2 OOB).

I would consider this a throw-in violation, as B2 has now touched across the boundary during a throw-in as in 9-2-5, though I could see an arguement that the throw-in has ended and B2 is OOB as in 9-2-2.