The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Baseball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 07, 2008, 08:34am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 88
Can I fix this?

FED game. R2, 1 out. B1 hits a "blooper" down the left field line. As the ball falls into fair territory close to the line I have a brain fart and signal foul. As F7 picks up the ball and starts to throw home to try to get R2, I see that he is looking in my direction and does not throw. At this point I realize that I am pointing toward foul territory. R2 scores and B1 goes to second. The defensive coach comes out and wants me to do something about my mistake. He is telling me that his players can't be penalized for me making the wrong call. I told him that I had no way of knowing if the runner would have been thrown out at the plate. Could I have done something to fix this? The defensive team ended up losing the game in extra innings.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 07, 2008, 08:37am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 281
Send a message via AIM to charliej47 Send a message via MSN to charliej47 Send a message via Yahoo to charliej47
FED changed the rules a couple of years ago that if the UMP calles "foul ball" which you did by signaling, the ball is dead and it is a "do over".
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 07, 2008, 10:51am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: CT
Posts: 2,439
Quote:
Originally Posted by charliej47
FED changed the rules a couple of years ago that if the UMP calles "foul ball" which you did by signaling, the ball is dead and it is a "do over".
Please show us this "do over" rule as in my 2008 FED book (and 2007 FED book) if the umpire calls "foul" it is a done deal and cannot be undone. I would really like to see this "change" you refer to.
__________________
When in doubt, bang 'em out!
Ozzy
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 07, 2008, 02:31pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Randolph, NJ
Posts: 1,936
Send a message via Yahoo to waltjp
Quote:
Originally Posted by charliej47
FED changed the rules a couple of years ago that if the UMP calles "foul ball" which you did by signaling, the ball is dead and it is a "do over".
Charlie, it is not a 'do over'; it's a foul ball. If the batter had a count of 1 strike on him he now has 2.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 07, 2008, 06:09pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Belvidere, IL
Posts: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by charliej47
FED changed the rules a couple of years ago that if the UMP calles "foul ball" which you did by signaling, the ball is dead and it is a "do over".
I am pretty sure the change was if you call a ball foul while it is still in the air and it is still caught, then you still have an out instead of a foul ball. I never remember hearing anything about a do over.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 08, 2008, 09:03am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 88
Announces

The way my partner bailed me out on this one is that I never said anything during the play. I simply pointed into foul territory. I read 5-1-1-h and it says the ball is dead when an umpire "inadvertently announces 'Foul' on a ball that touches the ground;" He said that since the players didn't hear a foul ball call, they should have continued playing. The coach said (and I agree with him) that his F7 saw the signal and declined to throw home and attempt to retire R2. I know I have screwed this one up, but I just don't know how I could have fixed it. His point was that if I inadvertently signaled out without verbalizing the call and then his runner left the base and was tagged, I would correct the situtation and put him back on base.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 08, 2008, 09:17am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,186
Quote:
Originally Posted by umpire99
I know I have screwed this one up, but I just don't know how I could have fixed it.
You can't fix it, you have to live with the foul call. It's the rule.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 08, 2008, 10:20am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 7,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins
You can't fix it, you have to live with the foul call. It's the rule.
And, in FED at least, it doesn't matter whether you "verbalized" the call. Your signal was sufficient to invoke FED's "erroneous foul call" rule.
__________________
Cheers,
mb
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 07, 2008, 08:43am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by umpire99
...As the ball falls into fair territory close to the line I have a brain fart and signal foul...At this point I realize that I am pointing toward foul territory...
Did you signal foul only or did you declare "foul!"?
__________________
Tony Carilli
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 07, 2008, 08:55am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,729
It is foul

Tony:

The Oregon School Activities Association sent the NFHS a question this spring on this EXACT type play.

The NFHS answered by saying "a "point" is a declaration" and the ball is foul by the inadvertant signal.

Tim Christensen
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 07, 2008, 09:12am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 88
Reference

I only signaled, but the coach's point was that F7 did not make the throw home because of my signal.

Can anyone give me a reference to explain this? I would like to apologize to the coach if I see him again. I would like for him to know what to do if this happens to him in the future.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 07, 2008, 09:21am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,226
This play sucks when it happens because your only response is "Coach, when I call it foul, it's foul and I have to eat it. There's nothing I can do. Sorry."
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 07, 2008, 09:23am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,186
Quote:
Originally Posted by umpire99
I only signaled, but the coach's point was that F7 did not make the throw home because of my signal.

Can anyone give me a reference to explain this? I would like to apologize to the coach if I see him again. I would like for him to know what to do if this happens to him in the future.
2-foul ball; 5-immediate dead ball
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 07, 2008, 05:54pm
ODJ ODJ is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by umpire99
I only signaled, but the coach's point was that F7 did not make the throw home because of my signal.

Can anyone give me a reference to explain this? I would like to apologize to the coach if I see him again. I would like for him to know what to do if this happens to him in the future.
Fed. 5-1-1 h.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 07, 2008, 12:11pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim C
Tony:

The Oregon School Activities Association sent the NFHS a question this spring on this EXACT type play.

The NFHS answered by saying "a "point" is a declaration" and the ball is foul by the inadvertant signal.

Tim Christensen
Tim:

Thanks. You saw where I was going with that. On this play circle the wagons.
__________________
Tony Carilli
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:25am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1