Can I fix this?

[umpire99]

FED game. R2, 1 out. B1 hits a "blooper" down the left field line. As the ball falls into fair territory close to the line I have a brain fart and signal foul. As F7 picks up the ball and starts to throw home to try to get R2, I see that he is looking in my direction and does not throw. At this point I realize that I am pointing toward foul territory. R2 scores and B1 goes to second. The defensive coach comes out and wants me to do something about my mistake. He is telling me that his players can't be penalized for me making the wrong call. I told him that I had no way of knowing if the runner would have been thrown out at the plate. Could I have done something to fix this? The defensive team ended up losing the game in extra innings.

[charliej47]

FED changed the rules a couple of years ago that if the UMP calles "foul ball" which you did by signaling, the ball is dead and it is a "do over".

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by charliej47

FED changed the rules a couple of years ago that if the UMP calles "foul ball" which you did by signaling, the ball is dead and it is a "do over".

Please show us this "do over" rule as in my 2008 FED book (and 2007 FED book) if the umpire calls "foul" it is a done deal and cannot be undone. I would really like to see this "change" you refer to.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by charliej47

FED changed the rules a couple of years ago that if the UMP calles "foul ball" which you did by signaling, the ball is dead and it is a "do over".

Charlie, it is not a 'do over'; it's a foul ball. If the batter had a count of 1 strike on him he now has 2.

[ajjl22]

Originally Posted by charliej47

FED changed the rules a couple of years ago that if the UMP calles "foul ball" which you did by signaling, the ball is dead and it is a "do over".

I am pretty sure the change was if you call a ball foul while it is still in the air and it is still caught, then you still have an out instead of a foul ball. I never remember hearing anything about a do over.

[umpire99]

The way my partner bailed me out on this one is that I never said anything during the play. I simply pointed into foul territory. I read 5-1-1-h and it says the ball is dead when an umpire "inadvertently announces 'Foul' on a ball that touches the ground;" He said that since the players didn't hear a foul ball call, they should have continued playing. The coach said (and I agree with him) that his F7 saw the signal and declined to throw home and attempt to retire R2. I know I have screwed this one up, but I just don't know how I could have fixed it. His point was that if I inadvertently signaled out without verbalizing the call and then his runner left the base and was tagged, I would correct the situtation and put him back on base.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by umpire99

I know I have screwed this one up, but I just don't know how I could have fixed it.

You can't fix it, you have to live with the foul call. It's the rule.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

You can't fix it, you have to live with the foul call. It's the rule.

And, in FED at least, it doesn't matter whether you "verbalized" the call. Your signal was sufficient to invoke FED's "erroneous foul call" rule.

[tcarilli]

Originally Posted by umpire99

...As the ball falls into fair territory close to the line I have a brain fart and signal foul...At this point I realize that I am pointing toward foul territory...

Did you signal foul only or did you declare "foul!"?

[Tim C]

Tony:

The Oregon School Activities Association sent the NFHS a question this spring on this EXACT type play.

The NFHS answered by saying "a "point" is a declaration" and the ball is foul by the inadvertant signal.

Tim Christensen

[umpire99]

I only signaled, but the coach's point was that F7 did not make the throw home because of my signal.

Can anyone give me a reference to explain this? I would like to apologize to the coach if I see him again. I would like for him to know what to do if this happens to him in the future.

[bossman72]

This play sucks when it happens because your only response is "Coach, when I call it foul, it's foul and I have to eat it. There's nothing I can do. Sorry."

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by umpire99

I only signaled, but the coach's point was that F7 did not make the throw home because of my signal.

Can anyone give me a reference to explain this? I would like to apologize to the coach if I see him again. I would like for him to know what to do if this happens to him in the future.

2-foul ball; 5-immediate dead ball

[ODJ]

Originally Posted by umpire99

I only signaled, but the coach's point was that F7 did not make the throw home because of my signal.

Can anyone give me a reference to explain this? I would like to apologize to the coach if I see him again. I would like for him to know what to do if this happens to him in the future.

Fed. 5-1-1 h.

[tcarilli]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Tony:

The Oregon School Activities Association sent the NFHS a question this spring on this EXACT type play.

The NFHS answered by saying "a "point" is a declaration" and the ball is foul by the inadvertant signal.

Tim Christensen

Tim:

Thanks. You saw where I was going with that. On this play circle the wagons.