Can I fix this?

[umpire99]

FED game. R2, 1 out. B1 hits a "blooper" down the left field line. As the ball falls into fair territory close to the line I have a brain fart and signal foul. As F7 picks up the ball and starts to throw home to try to get R2, I see that he is looking in my direction and does not throw. At this point I realize that I am pointing toward foul territory. R2 scores and B1 goes to second. The defensive coach comes out and wants me to do something about my mistake. He is telling me that his players can't be penalized for me making the wrong call. I told him that I had no way of knowing if the runner would have been thrown out at the plate. Could I have done something to fix this? The defensive team ended up losing the game in extra innings.

[charliej47]

FED changed the rules a couple of years ago that if the UMP calles "foul ball" which you did by signaling, the ball is dead and it is a "do over".

[tcarilli]

Originally Posted by umpire99

...As the ball falls into fair territory close to the line I have a brain fart and signal foul...At this point I realize that I am pointing toward foul territory...

Did you signal foul only or did you declare "foul!"?

[Tim C]

Tony:

The Oregon School Activities Association sent the NFHS a question this spring on this EXACT type play.

The NFHS answered by saying "a "point" is a declaration" and the ball is foul by the inadvertant signal.

Tim Christensen

[umpire99]

I only signaled, but the coach's point was that F7 did not make the throw home because of my signal.

Can anyone give me a reference to explain this? I would like to apologize to the coach if I see him again. I would like for him to know what to do if this happens to him in the future.

[bossman72]

This play sucks when it happens because your only response is "Coach, when I call it foul, it's foul and I have to eat it. There's nothing I can do. Sorry."

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by umpire99

I only signaled, but the coach's point was that F7 did not make the throw home because of my signal.

Can anyone give me a reference to explain this? I would like to apologize to the coach if I see him again. I would like for him to know what to do if this happens to him in the future.

2-foul ball; 5-immediate dead ball

[ILRef80]

Once you call it foul, the ball is dead. You just have to tell the coach you made a mistake and it's something we have to play over. It happens, we make mistakes too.

My 2008 rule book is in my bag at home, but I do have my 2007 case book at work and 2.16.1 Sit. A describes this play. Once the ball hits the ground, the ball is dead and the batter is charged with a strike.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by charliej47

FED changed the rules a couple of years ago that if the UMP calles "foul ball" which you did by signaling, the ball is dead and it is a "do over".

Please show us this "do over" rule as in my 2008 FED book (and 2007 FED book) if the umpire calls "foul" it is a done deal and cannot be undone. I would really like to see this "change" you refer to.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by umpire99

FED game. R2, 1 out. B1 hits a "blooper" down the left field line. As the ball falls into fair territory close to the line I have a brain fart and signal foul. As F7 picks up the ball and starts to throw home to try to get R2, I see that he is looking in my direction and does not throw.

IN FED Foul is FOUL and CANNOT be reversed. The coach can "stand on his head" etc. but it's FOUL.

OBR - There is precedent set in OBR that would allow the call of Foul to be changed to fair IF the players DID NOT react to the call of Foul.

However, even in your OP the ball under all 3 codes would be FOUL because of As F7 picks up the ball and starts to throw home to try to get R2, I see that he is looking in my direction and does not throw. F7 REACTED to your call of Foul and thus made no attempt to try and get the runner.

In FED it's spelled out as Tee indicated. FOUL is FOUL.

In OBR under very mimimal circumstances you change the call to Fair.

It's one of those things we have to live with. We are human (at least i think we are) and most of us have had "brain farts" and it's part of the game. Live and learn but more importantly - Time to move on coach let's play.

Pete Booth

[tcarilli]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Tony:

The Oregon School Activities Association sent the NFHS a question this spring on this EXACT type play.

The NFHS answered by saying "a "point" is a declaration" and the ball is foul by the inadvertant signal.

Tim Christensen

Tim:

Thanks. You saw where I was going with that. On this play circle the wagons.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by charliej47

FED changed the rules a couple of years ago that if the UMP calles "foul ball" which you did by signaling, the ball is dead and it is a "do over".

Charlie, it is not a 'do over'; it's a foul ball. If the batter had a count of 1 strike on him he now has 2.

[ODJ]

Originally Posted by umpire99

I only signaled, but the coach's point was that F7 did not make the throw home because of my signal.

Can anyone give me a reference to explain this? I would like to apologize to the coach if I see him again. I would like for him to know what to do if this happens to him in the future.

Fed. 5-1-1 h.

[ajjl22]

Originally Posted by charliej47

FED changed the rules a couple of years ago that if the UMP calles "foul ball" which you did by signaling, the ball is dead and it is a "do over".

I am pretty sure the change was if you call a ball foul while it is still in the air and it is still caught, then you still have an out instead of a foul ball. I never remember hearing anything about a do over.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by msavakinas

yes. You could have offered to buy any and all adult beverages consumed after the game by the coach who lost while not in vicinity over the other coach.

Where was he when he lost?