Coach Fines in Ohio

[jicecone]

How about some incentive here. The official that tosses the coach gets $50.00.

"No hard feelings coach," "Strickly a business deal."

Have a nice day!!!!

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

To quote the Green H.S. girls' basketball coach Tony Whitmer: "They are finding more ways to chase good people out of coaching and increase the turnover in coaching," he said. "What's next, fines for officials? Fans? Players? I'll bet there are no fines for the officials."


Here is my response to Mr. Whitmer:

The OhioHSAA membership is made up of both public and private schools. I cannot speak for the private schools, but I do not know of a single public school in Ohio where assistant coaches are not paid; assistant coaches are employees of the school district for which they coach. And yes, officials can and are fined by the OhioHSAA for certain infractions, which can range from double booking, failure to fulfill a contract, failure to file an player and/or coach ejection report, or wearing an improper uniform. Regarding the last two general examples the I gave I can give specific examples. An entire football crew was fined and denied post-season tournament assignments for one year because the crew failed to file an ejection report. Two soccer officials were fined $100 each five years ago for wearing yellow soccer officiating shirts when the the only approved shirts were the black with white collar and cuffs. The best part of the soccer officials infractions was the fact that the officials were from Columbus (OhioHSAA headquarters are located in Columbus), the game was in Columbus on the same side of town that the OhioHSAA offices are located, and OhioHSAA VIP from the state headquarters was in attendance at the game.

MTD, Sr.

[jkumpire]

With all due respect to Mark, I think this is an awful idea.

First, I know of very few ejections in Ohio of coaches. This is overkill. I would like to see how many players and coaches are ejected in Ohio these days. The number is fewer than it used to be. And by putting this kind of power in the hands of officials, you are upsetting the balance between coaches and officials. Right now, the threat of ejection is strong enough to control coaches. Now an incompetent or hot headed official, or worst, one who makes an honest mistake, can cost a coach, money, games, and a significant amount of time. The number of coaches and players ejected used to be published by OHSAA, they are not made public anymore.

In basketball, it can even be worse than baseball since the Head Coach can take be ejected for actions of other people than himself. And while the head Coach is the responsible person for the behavior of the whole team, everyone he coaches are perfect angels every day, and never will do anything wrong in the heat of the moment.

Second, if they are made to take some kind of online course, it will be awful. The online courses I have seen for officials are not very good in my opinion, I doubt if they will be better for coaches. And last time I checked, a lot of coaches have college degrees which include coaching classes, psychology of coaching classes, etc. What they will get is a bunch of PC drivel which is counter-productive.

Third, OHSAA is showing that they are starting to think like a government bureaucracy. Most specifically in this case, what ever happened to local control and discipline of coaches and staff? What do you need an Athletic Director and Principal for if the state body is going to run discipline, and fines for coaches? I'm sorry, but if an ejection happens in Ohio now, you are suspended for a length of time. If it happens twice, the coach and principal see the head of OHSAA. In 30 years of watching OHSAA sports I know of nobody ejected 3 times in a season. That is punishment enough, and the center of punishment was left to the local school district where it belongs. OHSAA is going to far in this case, in my opinion. And the monetary fines are totally wrong in my opinion.

AD's and local school administrators are the people responsible for the actions, and hiring and firing of coaches under the leadership of a local school board. Not the OHSAA. But the OHSAA is becoming just like the Ohio state government: Destroying education in Ohio by ending local control and making every one into a one size fit all school program, OHSAA may well be starting on the same path.

I have more reasons why I don't like this, but that is enough for now.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

With all due respect to Mark, I think this is an awful idea.

First, I know of very few ejections in Ohio of coaches. This is overkill. I would like to see how many players and coaches are ejected in Ohio these days. The number is fewer than it used to be. And by putting this kind of power in the hands of officials, you are upsetting the balance between coaches and officials. Right now, the threat of ejection is strong enough to control coaches. Now an incompetent or hot headed official, or worst, one who makes an honest mistake, can cost a coach, money, games, and a significant amount of time. The number of coaches and players ejected used to be published by OHSAA, they are not made public anymore.

In basketball, it can even be worse than baseball since the Head Coach can take be ejected for actions of other people than himself. And while the head Coach is the responsible person for the behavior of the whole team, everyone he coaches are perfect angels every day, and never will do anything wrong in the heat of the moment.

Second, if they are made to take some kind of online course, it will be awful. The online courses I have seen for officials are not very good in my opinion, I doubt if they will be better for coaches. And last time I checked, a lot of coaches have college degrees which include coaching classes, psychology of coaching classes, etc. What they will get is a bunch of PC drivel which is counter-productive.

Third, OHSAA is showing that they are starting to think like a government bureaucracy. Most specifically in this case, what ever happened to local control and discipline of coaches and staff? What do you need an Athletic Director and Principal for if the state body is going to run discipline, and fines for coaches? I'm sorry, but if an ejection happens in Ohio now, you are suspended for a length of time. If it happens twice, the coach and principal see the head of OHSAA. In 30 years of watching OHSAA sports I know of nobody ejected 3 times in a season. That is punishment enough, and the center of punishment was left to the local school district where it belongs. OHSAA is going to far in this case, in my opinion. And the monetary fines are totally wrong in my opinion.

AD's and local school administrators are the people responsible for the actions, and hiring and firing of coaches under the leadership of a local school board. Not the OHSAA. But the OHSAA is becoming just like the Ohio state government: Destroying education in Ohio by ending local control and making every one into a one size fit all school program, OHSAA may well be starting on the same path.

I have more reasons why I don't like this, but that is enough for now.

Don't act like an idiot on the field and you won't get tossed. An "incompetent" official or even one that misses a call doesn't mean a coach gets to be an idiot.

I can honestly say I used to work in a place where the coach got fined for being ejected. I ejected no more or less quickly then than I do now. If you can't do the time or pay the fine, see my first sentence.

[mbyron]

The state association has increased the disincentive for coaches to get ejected. That's their business. I will have a problem only if the rules change for what counts as a "good ejection." If there's trickle down, so that it becomes harder for me to have a "good ejection," then I'll complain.

The state association already has a procedure in place to handle poor officials who eject at the drop of a hat. The state suffers from a shortage of officials in virtually every sport but basketball, and schools can't afford to pay more right now. If it does anything to make coaches less rattish, then I'm for it.

Oregon has a very similar "fine/suspension" deal. It includes player ejections too. It works very well at keeping coaches in line. I do two sports, and it is effective in both.

One thing you can count on after an ejection though is a call from the commissioner asking you if there was anything you could have done to prevent the ejection. Depending upon how you answer, the commissioner can choose to recommend that the ejection be uphelp or not.

A little secret (Tim C, you didn't ever read this... . I WON'T restrict coaches to the bench. If the clown is so bad that he needs to go, he goes. If later I felt that it was something I "could" have just restricted him to the bench for, I tell the commissioner that and write an email to him stating that. I find this to be a most eloquent way to get rid of the annoying coach and not have them suffer the fine/suspension for something I probably should have restricted them to the bench for.

With no ejections in 32 NCAA and 29 NFHS games this year, I don't get a lot of calls from the commissioner, except for game assignments!

[lawump]

Fact: Ejections in SC have gone down in baseball since a $100 mandatory fine was instituted.

Fact: I've had more than one coach tell me that they no longer argue like they used to because their wife would not understand the $100 check he has to write out!

Fact: "Good coaches" have not left baseball...the same ones are still coaching.

Fact: The H.S. league office will "override" an ejection (that is waive the fine) if the ejection was particularly meritless. It does not happen often...and when it does, the office has ALWAYS called us (the umpire association board) and given us a heads up, and frankly sought our approval. In the two times it happened since I've been President, I supported the League's actions as our umpires way over-reacted.