Assignor Nightmares

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by mbyron

One of these statements is about officiating. The other one is crap. Endorsing both is idiocy. That is, of course, just my opinion.

First off I don't remember endorsing either one. I simply proposed how the two mindsets may come up with different rulings in odd situations.

Let me give you a sitch and tell me how you'd handle it.

I was doing 3 man last week when this happened.

R1, live ball, I'm in C

F1 steps on rubber in set position, PU is behind F2 but still casual.
PU had just asked for more game balls, a coach from 1st base dugout catches PUs attention (non verbal) and had two previously fouled gameballs.
PU steps out from behind plate as a bench player runs out the balls.
F1 seeing the PU step away to retrieve balls casually steps off the rubber but with wrong foot first. In C position I'm seeing the same thing F1 is and I let the balk slide. My P in short A however does not notice what's happening at the plate and calls a balk.

Would you enforce the balk?
If so, then I'd say you're a by the rules guy
If not, then the best interest of the game trumped the rules.

I believe there are many many good umpires that would wave off this balk.

So like it or not it's a fact of umpiring that both mindsets exist and your mindset relative to this question may very well influence your ruling.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by CO ump

Would you enforce the balk?

No because the ball is dead at this point. There is no such thing as a dead ball balk.

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by Welpe

No because the ball is dead at this point. There is no such thing as a dead ball balk.

Why is the ball dead?

[Welpe]

Do you allow the ball to remain alive while obtaining more baseballs from bench personnel or when changing out baseballs with the catcher? Even if not explicitly called, time should be out in this situation.

[tcarilli]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Do you allow the ball to remain alive while obtaining more baseballs from bench personnel or when changing out baseballs with the catcher? Even if not explicitly called, time should be out in this situation.

Why? The PU receiving an allocation of balls doesn't seem to warrant time being called in a 3-man game with R1 only. Help me to understand.

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Do you allow the ball to remain alive while obtaining more baseballs from bench personnel or when changing out baseballs with the catcher? Even if not explicitly called, time should be out in this situation.

Changing out balls with catcher is by rule a dead ball.
Receiving balls from the bench, to my knowledge, is not.

In this case no one killed it.
So do you enforce the balk or no?

[jkumpire]

Men, I asked the question because as I read the situation, I thought the BU was not sure the BR hit 1B. I stand corrected, the BU did see him miss 1B, you have to allow the appeal and call him out.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by CO ump

Let me give you a sitch and tell me how you'd handle it.

I was doing 3 man last week when this happened.

R1, live ball, I'm in C

F1 steps on rubber in set position, PU is behind F2 but still casual.
PU had just asked for more game balls, a coach from 1st base dugout catches PUs attention (non verbal) and had two previously fouled gameballs.
PU steps out from behind plate as a bench player runs out the balls.
F1 seeing the PU step away to retrieve balls casually steps off the rubber but with wrong foot first. In C position I'm seeing the same thing F1 is and I let the balk slide. My P in short A however does not notice what's happening at the plate and calls a balk.

The bolded areas show the mistake that was made in this case. The PU should have done the same thing a pro umpire does when he requests more baseballs from the dugout. The umpire will signal the number of balls he wants from the bench, then wait until after the next pitch or play to have the ball boy run them out to him. He does not hold up the game with the pitcher on his plate and ready to go, which wastes time and interupts the flow.

This was poor game management. The PU should have held up his hand like a stop sign toward the coach who was getting his attention, and said something to the effect of, "next play, Skip," or "Hang on to 'em." Then after the next pitch or play, had the bench player trot out the baseballs. The pitcher should not have been put in that position to start with, as he was ready, and the ball was alive and in play.

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

The bolded areas show the mistake that was made in this case. The PU should have done the same thing a pro umpire does when he requests more baseballs from the dugout. The umpire will signal the number of balls he wants from the bench, then wait until after the next pitch or play to have the ball boy run them out to him. He does not hold up the game with the pitcher on his plate and ready to go, which wastes time and interupts the flow.

This was poor game management. The PU should have held up his hand like a stop sign toward the coach who was getting his attention, and said something to the effect of, "next play, Skip," or "Hang on to 'em." Then after the next pitch or play, had the bench player trot out the baseballs. The pitcher should not have been put in that position to start with, as he was ready, and the ball was alive and in play.

I agree.
I never said proper mechanics were used, but that doesn't answer the Q
Would you enforce the balk?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by CO ump

I agree.
I never said proper mechanics were used, but that doesn't answer the Q
Would you enforce the balk?

What balk? I don't have a balk. Same as if the batter steps out of the box out of frustration of the unnecessary delay. He didn't ask for Time before stepping out, but there was an obvious umpire-created delay on the field, so it's nothing. Same here. Pivot foot, non-pivot foot, who cares? The bottom line is that he was ready to pitch, and Chucklehead working the dish decided to throw off everyone's timing so he could add some balls to his bag. Whoopie.

Now, if everyone is in position and ready to go, and then he steps off with his non-pivot foot, by all means balk it.

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

What balk? I don't have a balk. Same as if the batter steps out of the box out of frustration of the unnecessary delay. He didn't ask for Time before stepping out, but there was an obvious umpire-created delay on the field, so it's nothing. Same here. Pivot foot, non-pivot foot, who cares? The bottom line is that he was ready to pitch, and Chucklehead working the dish decided to throw off everyone's timing so he could add some balls to his bag. Whoopie.

Now, if everyone is in position and ready to go, and then he steps off with his non-pivot foot, by all means balk it.

Thank you.

Although some may think your answer is crap I agree as you do, that sometimes the best interest of the game supercedes the rules.

Then going back to the OP, IMO, deny the appeal, eject the PA and play ball.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by CO ump

Thank you.

Although some may think your answer is crap I agree as you do, that sometimes the best interest of the game supercedes the rules.

I also wouldn't go so far as to say that my solution supersedes any rules, it just makes sense to do it that way. The ball in this case was not ready for play, so no harm, no foul.