Is there a Dr. in da house

[Hartee14]

That is the type of comment that does not have to be made. Grow up.

[Hartee14]

But, I do agree with Steve M, if a partner did let a player back into the game with those symptoms, they were wrong. The good thing is, the NFHS and most state associations are starting to allow Athletic Trainers to do more and more.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by Hartee14

But, I do agree with Steve M, if a partner did let a player back into the game with those symptoms, they were wrong. The good thing is, the NFHS and most state associations are starting to allow Athletic Trainers to do more and more.

Man, I think you missed what I was saying - or at least meant to be clear on.
If you & are are doing a game, a player is knocked out, and you let him back into the game with only the OK of an athletic trainer - you will finish that game alone.
And I live in an area where it is very likely there are several docs in the stands - in this county, we have 1 doc for every 300 people. (That also means there are a lot of lawyers around too)

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Steve M

Man, I think you missed what I was saying - or at least meant to be clear on.
If you & are are doing a game, a player is knocked out, and you let him back into the game with only the OK of an athletic trainer - you will finish that game alone.
And I live in an area where it is very likely there are several docs in the stands - in this county, we have 1 doc for every 300 people. (That also means there are a lot of lawyers around too)

And I'm not asking a trainer his opinion on "apparently unconscious." By rule, that belongs to me.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by Hartee14

But, I do agree with Steve M, if a partner did let a player back into the game with those symptoms, they were wrong. The good thing is, the NFHS and most state associations are starting to allow Athletic Trainers to do more and more.

Ok, but until it's in black and white that an Athletic Trainer can approve the return of a player who has been unconscious you can't allow their return. By doing so, you are asking for a court date.

Just my opinion (and others), but I believe you are wrong by allowing the player to return based on an AT's opinion. As I said, do as you wish, but you are asking to open a big can of worms.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Hartee14

I do not fail to understand anything. I know the rule. The fact remains I am going to listen to the Athletic Trainer in this situation. I feel the way I feel. In my opinion, no medical professional, including an Athletic Trainer, is going to let an athlete back into a game that should not be playing. You guys do not give the Athletic Trainers enough respect. Most people think they are glorified EMTs. They are not. They are much more then that.

I am in agreement that if the athlete looses unconscious that an MD or DO will have to let the athlete back in the game. What we are arguing about is who makes the decision. I am not putting that burden on me.

Troll alert. Do not feed.

[Hartee14]

Let me ask this question. What if you deem the player was not unconscious and the Athletic Trainer said he was unconscious. Would you let the player return?

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by Hartee14

Let me ask this question. What if you deem the player was not unconscious and the Athletic Trainer said he was unconscious. Would you let the player return?

If anybody told me the player was unconscious I'm keeping him out until I get a doctor's note stating that he's okay to play. This is not a two-way street. Let's be clear, we're concerned about a concussion. If a player exhibits any of the following symptoms I'm not allowing him back into the game until he has his note.

• Appears dazed or stunned
• Is confused about assignment
• Forgets plays
• Is unsure of game, score, or opponent
• Moves clumsily
• Answers questions slowly
• Loses consciousness
• Shows behavior or personality changes
• Can't recall events prior to hit
• Can't recall events after hit

Or the athlete himself might report the following symptoms if he has a concussion, including a:

• Headache
• Nausea
• Balance problems or dizziness
• Double or fuzzy vision
• Sensitivity to light or noise
• Feeling sluggish
• Feeling foggy or groggy
• Concentration or memory problems
• Confusion

Other important facts about concussions include that they:

• are caused by a bump, blow, or jolt to the head
• can occur even if the athlete doesn't lose consciousness
• can happen in any sport
• may not cause symptoms until days or weeks after the injury
• can cause brain swelling, permanent brain damage, or even death, if an athlete has a second concussion before fulling recovering from a first one

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by Hartee14

Let me ask this question. What if you deem the player was not unconscious and the Athletic Trainer said he was unconscious. Would you let the player return?

I would have to evaluate the situation on an individual basis. No one-size-fits-all answer. Depending on the situation, and the trainer, I might allow his assessment to help form my decision.

There's no rule against that.

But there is a rule about allowing an player rendered unconcious to return the game without written authorization from a physician. So, if the AT convinces me that the player was unconcious, the player will need that note to get back in the game.

And if I am to err, I will err toward the side of caution. If the trainer is adamant that the player was knocked out, the kid is probably gone until complying with the rules for coming back.

[Hartee14]

The fact of the matter is I hope this hardly ever happens to anyone because it is one of those situations where you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by Hartee14

Let me ask this question. What if you deem the player was not unconscious and the Athletic Trainer said he was unconscious. Would you let the player return?

If the AT said he was not fit for play, I'd take his word for it. In this case, he's an expert.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by Hartee14

The fact of the matter is I hope this hardly ever happens to anyone because it is one of those situations where you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

I don't think you grasp what we are saying here.

This is not about Athletic Trainers.
This is not about a player being uncounscious or not.
This is not being dammed.

This is about protecting yourself from being accused and convicted of negligence and the penalty (which may be financial or other).

I would not even take the advice of my own son on this subject and he is a certified Athletic Trainer. Unfortunately, until he graduates from Med. School the judge probably won't want his advise either.

[Hartee14]

Trust me, I agree with all of you and I do grasp what you are all saying. Being on forum and not in person, things could have been explained much better. I thank you all for your input. I consider this topic closed.

[umpduck11]

Originally Posted by Hartee14

I do not fail to understand anything. I know the rule. The fact remains I am going to listen to the Athletic Trainer in this situation. I feel the way I feel. In my opinion, no medical professional, including an Athletic Trainer, is going to let an athlete back into a game that should not be playing. You guys do not give the Athletic Trainers enough respect. Most people think they are glorified EMTs. They are not. They are much more then that.
I am in agreement that if the athlete looses unconscious that an MD or DO will have to let the athlete back in the game. What we are arguing about is who makes the decision. I am not putting that burden on me.

Neither an athletic trainer nor an EMT are the equivalent of an MD. BTW, if I'm
involved in a serious traffic accident, I'd rather have an EMT treat me than an athletic trainer, so the comment highlighted in bold makes no sense to me.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by Hartee14

I would have said the same thing. The ATC would then have to take that up with the powers to be.

The fact of the matter is I hope this hardly ever happens to anyone because it is one of those situations where you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Welcome. Coach, administration, or police officials may understand how the UIC felt too. No one here saw the blow, nor the batter's reactions afterward. The UIC was w/in 6 feet away. Perhaps, it provided him with a more accurate assessment or it may have clouded his best judgment.

Perhaps F2 was an impt. link to victory and this ATC was "too-close" to the action. I think you felt strongly enough for the ATC that you have given him a proper voice. At my school, our ATC is "Doc" and "we" send kids w/ injuries to see him. This guy practically lives at the school and spends as much time there as the principals. He is the first line of response to any athletic injuries needing emergency treatment. I doubt I have ever seen an actual physician treat an injury during my time there. Perhaps this ATC was right, but what happens next, couldn't he just let it go? The ATC was still "ventilating" about it.

If anything, this event was an eye-opener into the type of responsibility placed on our shoulders. Thanks for the comments. Perhaps, those of us lacking experience with either the rule, or the "people" skills to handle something of this magnitude may take notice here. It boils down to possible LOC or not, and then seperate verdicts from 2 very reliable witnesses.

Have a great season.