Is there a Dr. in da house

[SAump]

After a game, a team's athletic trainer {grown adult} came up to my partner and I to ask us how we would throw the UIC from the previous night under the bus. Please respond to the following situation.

F2, while batting, is HBP over the left eyebrow. General swelling, no blood, diziness or headache. F2 is replaced. 20 minutes later, it is now time for legal re-entry after receiving approval from the team's certified medical expert. The trainer states that he is licensed by the state and that it is his responsibilty to make these decisions.

This person states that the umpire would not permit re-entry unless a Dr's handwritten note was presented to him, or something to that effect. He told the umpire about his "credentials" and had taken responsibility for the player's re-entry. He stated that he would not call balls and strikes for the umpire and that the umpire should not have overruled his decision.

He brought us copy of the 2008 FED rulebook and told us there was no such rule requirement. The trainer thought this issue was important enough to be addressed by rule for medical personnel. Not wanting to argue w/ the guy, I stated that the UIC was protecting himself, the best interest of the kid's general well-being. I told him the UIC has final authority to agree with him or not agree. He may have forfeited the game. When it was obvious that his needs were not being met, he turned to my partner and asked about reporting the incident.

[dash_riprock]

New this year: If a player has been rendered apparently unconscious, he needs written authorization from a physician (MD/DO) to return that day. 10-2-3-k.

If it was a bad enough shot to take him out of the game, I would say he looked unconscious to me and require the authorization specified by the rule. Just because the trainer says he assumes responsibility doesn't mean he does. That might be for a court to decide, and one of the arguments would be that the umpire improperly relied on the advice of some schmuck and put a seriously injured player at risk of permanent injury or death. No thanks.

[bob jenkins]

Although I'm not sure it's new, the UIC was right, if he (the UIC) thought the player was unconscious.

That's exactly how I'd respond to the trainer, and I'd tell him the coach knows how to report this.

[ozzy6900]

FED 10-2-3k is the new section for 2008:

k. Prohibit a player who has been rendered apparently unconscious during a
game to resume playing that day without written authorization from a
physician (MD/DO).

Notice that the MD/DO has been added to define the "physician".

[canadaump6]

Another reason they should just use OBR.

[wadeintothem]

Is it common to have a medical personnel for HS games where you are?

I've never seen one at that level except in football, where they have a physician and a trainer on the side lines.

If I had to guess, I'm guessing it was the kids daddy.

[Fan10]

Am I missing something here? The kid was hit by a pitch and had to leave the game. If he was hit by a pitch, that would mean he would go to 1B and thus would have to be replaced by a pinch runner. So, how can he come back in 20 minutes later?

[bluezebra]

Originally Posted by Fan10

Am I missing something here? The kid was hit by a pitch and had to leave the game. If he was hit by a pitch, that would mean he would go to 1B and thus would have to be replaced by a pinch runner. So, how can he come back in 20 minutes later?

First, the pinch-runner would go to 1B, since the batter was unable to do so.
Second, he has a re-entry privilege under FED rules.

Bob

[Rich]

Only the umpire decides whether the player needs a written authorization from a doctor (MD/DO), but since the player wasn't rendered (apparently) unconscious, I don't really understand why the umpire wouldn't let him return to the game.

I disagree with ruling that way just to absolve myself of any potential liability.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

Another reason they should just use OBR.

This comment is ignorant. The FED rules are the most explicitly written and include safety measures because they were written to be used by children.

That said, I don't think the rule was applied correctly based on the description given by the OP unless the trainer is lying when he said that the batter wasn't unconscious or anything.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

This comment is ignorant. The FED rules are the most explicitly written and include safety measures because they were written to be used by children.

That said, I don't think the rule was applied correctly based on the description given by the OP unless the trainer is lying when he said that the batter wasn't unconscious or anything.

I agree, Rich. The question wasn't "what is the right ruling", but "how do you responde when someopne asks about a previous game." Since "we" (the OP) weren't there, I just give the rule and try not to make a judgment about what really happened.

For some reason, too many individuals think the umpires in the next game are the proper channel in which to lodge a complaint.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I agree, Rich. The question wasn't "what is the right ruling", but "how do you responde when someopne asks about a previous game." Since "we" (the OP) weren't there, I just give the rule and try not to make a judgment about what really happened.

For some reason, too many individuals think the umpires in the next game are the proper channel in which to lodge a complaint.

Obviously. I would've simply said, "I wasn't here. Is the kid OK?" and escaped if that didn't change the subject.

[Hartee14]

I would have said the same thing. The ATC would then have to take that up with the powers to be.

But, my 2 cents. We are umpires. At the end of the day, whether we are doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc, when we are on the field, WE ARE UMPIRES. WE ARE NOT DOCTORS, ATHLETIC TRAINERS, etc. If you have a Certified Athletic Trainer at the game, you need to let them make the decisions. Who am I to tell an ATC that the player who just got hit should not return to the game? That is not my call. That is his/her call. That is what they get paid for. Unless you see the athlete laying there unconscious and they have to do CPR or mouth to mouth breathing, there is no reason not to let them return. I think the umpire made the wrong call.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Hartee14

I would have said the same thing. The ATC would then have to take that up with the powers to be.

But, my 2 cents. We are umpires. At the end of the day, whether we are doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc, when we are on the field, WE ARE UMPIRES. WE ARE NOT DOCTORS, ATHLETIC TRAINERS, etc. If you have a Certified Athletic Trainer at the game, you need to let them make the decisions. Who am I to tell an ATC that the player who just got hit should not return to the game? That is not my call. That is his/her call. That is what they get paid for. Unless you see the athlete laying there unconscious and they have to do CPR or mouth to mouth breathing, there is no reason not to let them return. I think the umpire made the wrong call.

An athletic trainer is not an MD or DO. If the player was apparently unconscious, even for an instant, that player doesn't return without a PHYSICIAN'S WRITTEN authorization.

[Hartee14]

I agree with you that an Athletic Trainer is not an MD or DO. But, they do have to work under the direction of an MD or DO. So, trust me, they know what they are doing. Athletic Trainer's have to go through 4 years of college and then pass a National Board test. My point being, as an umpire, it is not my job to tell whether the player was unconscious, it is a medical professional. In this case, the medical professional is the Athletic Trainer. This is another case of an official thinking they are more important then they really are.