Time of Award

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by BigGuy

I'm not disagreeing -but the above statement can be interpreted in different ways.

The problem with the above is that this is the only place in the rule book that that associates a lodged ball in a defensive players uniform and an immediate (or delayed) dead ball. It's not mentioned in the dead ball tables, other than a batted ball (5-1-1)

Hmmmmm. Let me ponder.

Which has the affect of rule.....a rule or a table placed in the in the book for the convenience of the reader?

Should they disagree, which one should take precedence over the other?
Hmmmmmm.

Tough choice, but I'm going out on a limb here and taking the rule.

I think the baserunning awards table probably ought to have two scenarios. One is the FIRST THROW BY ANY FIELDER. The second should cover a SECOND OR SUBSEQUENT THROW. One would surmise that FED never considered the implications of possibly penalizing the offensive team by two bases. Comments?

Originally Posted by GarthB

Hmmmmm. Let me ponder.

Which has the affect of rule.....a rule or a table placed in the in the book for the convenience of the reader?

Should they disagree, which one should take precedence over the other?
Hmmmmmm.

Tough choice, but I'm going out on a limb here and taking the rule.

Which rule would that be? The one that isn't written under dead ball rules or the one that appears to create a dead ball in the baserunning awards table.

There is a distinct conflict here. What about 10-2-3g? Maybe this is one of those times.

[BretMan]

I would guess that the rule being referred to is 8-3-5.

Though the exact play being discussed here isn't spelled-out, the final sentence under that rule would seem to indicate that the correct award is two bases from time of throw. The play fits the definition of "subsequent play by an infielder".

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by ptman

Fed Rules: Bases loaded, 0 out. Batter hits ball into the gap in right center. When the throw comes in from the outfield, batter-runner gets caught between second and third base in a run down. In the course of the run down, a thrown ball ends up lodged in the defensive player's uniform (or umpire's uniform). The award is two bases to the batter and runners. From what point is the award made: time of the pitch, or time of the throw?

I would rule this to be from the time of the throw.

the batted ball is handled by an outfielder who throws to an infielder who then initiates a run down. Now after scouring the casebook, it seems that unless this is the first play by an infielder or the throw was play was preceded by a pitch, the ruling always seems to be TOT not TOP.

Now even though this play is not addressed by the FED in the casebook, it meets that it is not the first play by an infielder (ball was hit to the outfield) and the throw was not preceded by a pitch (the initial throw was to the infield). The question is what throw of the run down would be the deciding throw. My choice is the throw that lodged the ball in the uniform would be where one would judge the award from.

Regards

Even though it's not mentioned in the RB or CB, 8-3-5 seems like the closest rule and bretman's and ozzy's explanations seem to make the most sense, and although I'm sure a lot of us don't necessarily get the warm fuzzies, it seems a reasonable fall back position. Just hope none of us are ever in that position.

[ManInBlue]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

The question is what throw of the run down would be the deciding throw. My choice is the throw that lodged the ball in the uniform would be where one would judge the award from.

Regards

Would which throw of the run down make a difference? 2 bases TOT = 2 bases from the last legally acquired base at the time of the throw - the last base acquired is the same, no matter which throw of the run down you use.

R is caught b/w 1B and 2B - he's acquired 1B, trying to reach 2B, and back and forth. One throw of the run down or 40, he's still only acquired 1B.

Not using the throw from the outfield makes sense. Award from where R was during the run down.

[johnnyg08]

hmmm...interesting point MIB...I forgot, is this FED or OBR?

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

hmmm...interesting point MIB...I forgot, is this FED or OBR?

We are dealing with FED here.

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

Would which throw of the run down make a difference? 2 bases TOT = 2 bases from the last legally acquired base at the time of the throw - the last base acquired is the same, no matter which throw of the run down you use.

Now we're thinking!