Mitchell Report?

[BigTex]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

What number did the Dallas-Ft. Worth metroplex rate in this survey?

Okay, I found out the real story. Dallas-Ft. Worth came in at #27 (with #1 being the drunkest). San Diego was not in the top 35. Seattle is only #13 on the list, not 11.

Here are a few highlights:

1. Milwaukee
12. San Antonio
18. Houston
23. Los Angeles
32. New York
33. Miami

Looks like I need to start working a little harder.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Here's a little Civics 101 to lay on ya:

We live in a representative republic. We do not live in a democracy. Look it up. Our government has never been a democracy. Where people ever got that idea remains a mystery.

Our representative republic IS a democracy.

Take a refresher course by reading On Democracy in America by Alexis de Tocqueville

[SanDiegoSteve]

Uh, no it's not. This is just one of many articles on the subject. This is just a small part of one:

From David N. Mayer

A Republic, Not a Democracy

218 years ago, on May 25, 1787, the framers of the Constitution of the United States began meeting at the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia. The debates were secret – a deliberate decision of the delegates, designed to keep them free from outside pressures. When the long, hot Philadelphia summer came to an end in mid-September, as the delegates were wrapping up their work and about to reveal to the public their proposed Constitution, it was said that someone asked the oldest delegate, Benjamin Franklin, what kind of government the nation would have. Franklin’s response has become famous, an important part of U.S. historical lore: “A republic, if you can keep it.”

Franklin’s comment came to my mind last month, when I read about President Bush’s trip to eastern Europe. Bush spoke glowingly of the progress of “democracy” in many of the nations formerly under Soviet Russian tyranny. Yet, like other American presidents in the modern era – and indeed, like most commentators on political or cultural matters – he erroneously described the American system of government as a “democracy,” or the United States as a nation based on “democratic” principles. It’s a common error, but one that shows how far out of touch most modern Americans are with the principles of their nation’s founding.

The United States of America is not a democracy. Let me emphasize that – THE UNITED STATES IS NOT A DEMOCRACY – and add, “Thank God!” America’s Founders understood well the evils of democracy and deliberated created a system of government that was not democratic but rather republican. The form of government in the United States (both the national government and the government of each of the 50 states) is not a democracy but a republic. Indeed, it is most accurately described as a “limited-government constitutional republic.”

The difference is not merely semantic. The word “republic” comes from the Latin phrase res publica, which means, literally, “the public thing(s).” It generally refers to a representative form of government, one in which the people’s representatives (chosen either directly or indirectly by them) govern but not the people themselves. (Such was the form of government, in theory at least, of the ancient Roman republic.) “Democracy,” on the other hand, is derived from the Greek words demos and kratein, which when combined mean, loosely, “the people rule.” Democracy thus is synonymous with direct rule by the people, or more accurately, by a majority of the people.

James Madison explained the difference between a democracy and a republic in two of the essays he wrote for The Federalist Papers. In No. 14, he distinguished the two this way: “In a democracy, the people meet and exercise the government in person; in a republic, they assemble and administer it by their representatives and agents,” he wrote. “A democracy, consequently, will be confined to a small spot. A republic may be extended over a large region.” In No. 39, while seeking to determine “the distinctive characters of the republican form,” Madison wrote that the term has been misapplied by many political writers.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Uh, no it's not. This is just one of many articles on the subject. This is just a small part of one:

From David N. Mayer

A Republic, Not a Democracy

218 years ago, on May 25, 1787, the framers of the Constitution of the United States began meeting at the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia. The debates were secret – a deliberate decision of the delegates, designed to keep them free from outside pressures. When the long, hot Philadelphia summer came to an end in mid-September, as the delegates were wrapping up their work and about to reveal to the public their proposed Constitution, it was said that someone asked the oldest delegate, Benjamin Franklin, what kind of government the nation would have. Franklin’s response has become famous, an important part of U.S. historical lore: “A republic, if you can keep it.”

Franklin’s comment came to my mind last month, when I read about President Bush’s trip to eastern Europe. Bush spoke glowingly of the progress of “democracy” in many of the nations formerly under Soviet Russian tyranny. Yet, like other American presidents in the modern era – and indeed, like most commentators on political or cultural matters – he erroneously described the American system of government as a “democracy,” or the United States as a nation based on “democratic” principles. It’s a common error, but one that shows how far out of touch most modern Americans are with the principles of their nation’s founding.

The United States of America is not a democracy. Let me emphasize that – THE UNITED STATES IS NOT A DEMOCRACY – and add, “Thank God!” America’s Founders understood well the evils of democracy and deliberated created a system of government that was not democratic but rather republican. The form of government in the United States (both the national government and the government of each of the 50 states) is not a democracy but a republic. Indeed, it is most accurately described as a “limited-government constitutional republic.”

The difference is not merely semantic. The word “republic” comes from the Latin phrase res publica, which means, literally, “the public thing(s).” It generally refers to a representative form of government, one in which the people’s representatives (chosen either directly or indirectly by them) govern but not the people themselves. (Such was the form of government, in theory at least, of the ancient Roman republic.) “Democracy,” on the other hand, is derived from the Greek words demos and kratein, which when combined mean, loosely, “the people rule.” Democracy thus is synonymous with direct rule by the people, or more accurately, by a majority of the people.

James Madison explained the difference between a democracy and a republic in two of the essays he wrote for The Federalist Papers. In No. 14, he distinguished the two this way: “In a democracy, the people meet and exercise the government in person; in a republic, they assemble and administer it by their representatives and agents,” he wrote. “A democracy, consequently, will be confined to a small spot. A republic may be extended over a large region.” In No. 39, while seeking to determine “the distinctive characters of the republican form,” Madison wrote that the term has been misapplied by many political writers.

It is a distinction so trivial that it is pointless to argue.


de·moc·ra·cy [di-mok-ruh-see]
–noun, plural -cies.
1. government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
2. a state having such a form of government: The United States and Canada are democracies.
3. a state of society characterized by formal equality of rights and privileges.
4. political or social equality; democratic spirit.
5. the common people of a community as distinguished from any privileged class; the common people with respect to their political power.


You can go on splitting hairs if you want.
But to deny the US is a democracy is rather silly.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

Our representative republic IS a democracy.

Take a refresher course by reading On Democracy in America by Alexis de Tocqueville

Not a student of government, I see.

While you may consider the misuse of a term by a 19th century racist French social engineer as gospel, I prefer to quote the U.S. Constitution:

Article IV

Section 4.

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

It is a distinction so trivial that it is pointless to argue.


de·moc·ra·cy [di-mok-ruh-see]
–noun, plural -cies.
1. government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
2. a state having such a form of government: The United States and Canada are democracies.
3. a state of society characterized by formal equality of rights and privileges.
4. political or social equality; democratic spirit.
5. the common people of a community as distinguished from any privileged class; the common people with respect to their political power.


You can go on splitting hairs if you want.
But to deny the US is a democracy is rather silly.

Not trivial nor is it splitting hairs. It is making a clear distinction. You must be using a very liberal "new age" dictionary if it says that the U.S. is a democracy.

Here is more for you to ponder:

America is a republic - not a democracy!

Not only did our Founding Fathers establish a republic, they greatly feared democracy. James Madison, known as the father of the U.S. Constitution, wrote in "Essay #10" of The Federalist Papers: "... democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths."

Although such an attitude will surprise most Americans, it is accurate.

The United States Constitution does not contain the word democracy. It does "guarantee to every State in this Union a republican form of government...." Also, when we recite the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag, we say, "to the Republic for which it stands," and not "to the Democracy."

The difference between a republic and a democracy was once widely understood in America. The U.S. War Department (superseded by the Department of Defense) taught that difference in a training manual (No. 2000-25) published on November 30, 1928. This official U.S. government document, used at the time for the training of American military personnel, said of democracy:

A government of the masses.

Authority derived through mass meeting or any other form of 'direct' expression.

Results in mobocracy.

Attitude toward property is communistic - negating property rights.

Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate, whether it be based upon deliberation

or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences.

Results in demogogism, license, agitation, discontent, anarchy."

It went on to state: "Our Constitutional fathers, familiar with the strength and weakness of both autocracy and democracy, with fixed principles definitely in mind, defined a representative republican form of government. They 'made a very marked distinction between a republic and a democracy and said repeatedly and emphatically that they had founded a republic.' "

Don't be deceived. America is a republic - not a democracy!

I think this pretty much clearly shows a huge difference between the two terms.