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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 23, 2005, 08:54am
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How 'bout a little review on this one--
    Start of 4th quarter-- Black Ball coming in--
    Table sounds first horn, then second horn
    All 10 players on floor and ready to go--
    Ready to blow whistle for RPP--
    R opposite table ready to go--
    R Checks w/ T -- get thumbs up signal
    R Checks w/ Table -- Scorer waves R over to table for discussion
    Table says 32 Black did not report in -- [appears 32 Black was not in game at end of 3rd period]


What do ya got, what might be the "mechanic"; and how 'bout some discussion on the timing of the "failing to report"

1. What is the reporting "requirement"?
2. When should players report?
3. When should table notify?
4. When is T called if called at all?
5. What kind of "preventive officiating" is recommended or suggested?

After some discussion I'll tell what they did.



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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 23, 2005, 09:09am
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You have two options here. Since you didn't hand in the ball, you can send the player to the table and have him report in. Then blow your whistle and start the quarter.
Or, you can issue a T on the player who failed to report. If it is varsity, you go with option B. Any other lower level, I would go with the first option.
You have to ask yourself, what is the best for this game that I am officiating. If the opposing coach complains, tell him you would have done the same thing for one of his players.
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Old Sun Jan 23, 2005, 09:35am
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We don't care about any of that from where I'm at.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 23, 2005, 10:27am
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SECTION 2 SUBSTITUTE TECHNICAL
A substitute shall not enter the court:
ART. 1 . . . Without reporting to the scorer.
ART. 2 . . . Without being beckoned by an official, except between quarters.
PENALTY: (Arts. 1, 2) Two free throws plus ball for division-line throw-in. One foul for either or both requirements. Penalized if discovered before the ball becomes live.
NOTE: A single flagrant technical foul or the second technical foul charged to a substitute results in disqualification of the offender to the team bench.
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Old Sun Jan 23, 2005, 12:27pm
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Funny, I asked the same thing earlier in the week in a thread I believe I entitled, "Illegal Substitution" where BktBallRef adamantly stated that there was no technical, but you just replace this player with whomever was in the game to end the previous quarter. Who is right?
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Old Mon Jan 24, 2005, 12:34am
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Quote:
Originally posted by TriggerMN
Funny, I asked the same thing earlier in the week in a thread I believe I entitled, "Illegal Substitution" where BktBallRef adamantly stated that there was no technical, but you just replace this player with whomever was in the game to end the previous quarter. Who is right?
The question of who's right isn't easy to answer in this case. The book says one thing, but most rules aren't enforced in a legalistic, letter-of-the-law kind of way. It may be that in different parts of the country, different interps are put on this situation. Frankly, it's probably wisest to ask your assignor or commissioner or state rules interpreter how he or she wants this handled. Then do it that way.
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Old Mon Jan 24, 2005, 12:58am
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Quote:
Originally posted by TriggerMN
Funny, I asked the same thing earlier in the week in a thread I believe I entitled, "Illegal Substitution" where BktBallRef adamantly stated that there was no technical, but you just replace this player with whomever was in the game to end the previous quarter. Who is right?
Adamantly? Okay.

I wrote, "No, you simply bring B5 back into the game," which is the same thing your partner did.

Yes, by rule, it's a technical foul

In such a situation, I'm not assessing a T. Just as entering the game without going all the way to X is a T, I'm not calling that one either. Very few scorers in my area have any idea who was in the game at the end of the previous period. If it became an issue and the state instructed us to be more vigorous about it, I guess I would. But there are other battles taht are more important to fight.

Send him back and bring in the previous player.
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Old Mon Jan 24, 2005, 01:38am
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I'd call the T, but everyone here already knows that.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 24, 2005, 08:33am
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I doubt whether most scorekeepers would know the player was not in the game at the end of the third quarter unless the player was not in the game in the third quarter at any time and thus was not marked.

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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 24, 2005, 01:12pm
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BktBallRef-->

Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification.
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Old Mon Jan 24, 2005, 02:26pm
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As usual, I'm with Tony on this. Rulebook T, but in real life, just fix it and go.

BTW. . .

Quote:
Originally posted by golfdesigner
    Start of 4th quarter-- Black Ball coming in--
    Table sounds first horn, then second horn
    All 10 players on floor and ready to go--
    Ready to blow whistle for RPP--
Why are we using the RPP when all 10 players are ready to play?
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Old Tue Jan 25, 2005, 01:32pm
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I'm with Chuck......just fix it and go.

I can imagine that it was the home scorekeeper that noticed it about the visiting team. I have experienced this "ploy" twice in my career where both times the home coach was chirping for the T.

However, in each instance the scorer could not confirm what 5 had been on the floor at the end of the previous quarter and I do not make it a habit to memorize the players who are in the game at any given point.....so we fix it and go!
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 25, 2005, 02:53pm
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Couple weeks ago, working with one of my favorite rookie know-it-all partners....

Player receives his 5th. I'm standing in front of the table and turn to tell the coach. He immediately gets me a sub. Sub is up and running towards me and the table. I turn back to the table and say "Number 32 is coming in." and I guide the player onto the court and he enters the key so we can shoot free throws.

I'm taking my position as Trail when I hear my partner tell the kid "Next time you better report to the table or I'll T you."

That's my partner! Preventive officiating at its finest.

I responded "You did just fine 32. We did it already. I told them he was coming into the game."
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Old Tue Jan 25, 2005, 03:41pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
Couple weeks ago, working with one of my favorite rookie know-it-all partners....

Player receives his 5th. I'm standing in front of the table and turn to tell the coach. He immediately gets me a sub. Sub is up and running towards me and the table. I turn back to the table and say "Number 32 is coming in." and I guide the player onto the court and he enters the key so we can shoot free throws.

I'm taking my position as Trail when I hear my partner tell the kid "Next time you better report to the table or I'll T you."

That's my partner! Preventive officiating at its finest.

I responded "You did just fine 32. We did it already. I told them he was coming into the game."
Is he worth saving? Or have you issued the contract on him already?
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Old Tue Jan 25, 2005, 04:20pm
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Cool $$$ hit man

He's somebody else's problem/vulnerability this week.
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