Mitchell Report?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Mike L

Are you trying to say the Mitchell report has accused Justice of being a steroid user on the "evidence" of only having a conversation with someone that did not involve the use of steroids? Really!

According to Justice and many other reports he was only shown to have a conversation with a person associated with a club. He was not the only one implicated like that but I do not remember those individuals because they were marginal players.

Also the report implicated people who wrote checks to clubhouse attendance which is a common practice in MLB because player paid them to run all kinds of errands for the players. For example they might have them run to the store or have their car fixed or do any number of things because the players are usually busy at the ball park. I am sure many of these guys are guilty, but MLB was having rumblings over steroids just like football did back in the 80s when Canseco and McGuire were on the A's and I did not see the ground swell back then for drug testing. The NFL started drug testing soon after Lyle Alzado (sp??) was going around claiming he was dying because of long time steroid use. And I am sure there were many more than 1% of players using as well.

Peace

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Let me give you an example of why I have a problem with this report. David Justice was accused of using steroids because he had a conversation with someone associated with a club he was on. No paper trail, no eyewitness reports, just a conversation that he had years ago about the drug which even did not suggest that Justice claimed he was using or used the drugs previously.

I keep bring it back to officiating. Would it be fair if you worked a conferences and someone took a conversation you had years ago and assumed that you helped throw a game all based on a conversation? Then as a result you are known as a cheater by everyone because your name was put in a report with people they actually proved or admitted to throwing games? I put this on the same plane as NBA Officials being mentioned in a report about throwing games with Tim Donaghy based only on information that they had a conversation with Donaghy or were accused by Donaghy without any cooperation and then the accused official also loses their job or their reputation.

Would that be fair?

Peace

The Mitchell Report is not based on any conversation....it is based on verifiable conversations. It is not legal evidence, but it is dependable evidence on what players talked about and did.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I'm not assuming that he got off easy, I'm frigging telling you that he got off easy.

Vick lost $70 million in contracts and endorsements and is also doing jail time. Few would agree with your assessment.

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

He did not receive the maximum penalty of 5 years because his attorney finally convinced him to cop a plea. Vick had wanted to go to trial and showed absolutely no remorse for his heinous crimes. He actually believed that he did nothing wrong.

Attorneys address those things, saving Michael time and money. Do you think Michael isn't listening?

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

The others cut deals to reduce their sentences for rolling over on Vick. I know the damn facts of the case, and he still got off easy and will be back playing in the NFL soon enough. He is suffering major financial losses, which is all his fault. He has nobody to blame but himself.

Unlike a current NFL player, Michael Vick is paying the price for his crime. Don't hate him cause he's young or black or quarterback. Vick has become that token symbol for America.

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Underperforming animals were shot, drowned, hanged, electrocuted or killed by being slammed to the ground. If you don't find this to be cruel, I have to wonder about your values.

Some would argue that it is humane to kill animals severly injured and on the verge of death. If you value human life {abolish death penalty, abortion, torture, genocide, etc.} then I respect your opinion. Otherwise, its crap, dog.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Yeah that is what I said. Do not let reading get in the way of a good story.

Then again, people actually read what people say here?

Peace

What little shred of respect I had for you just went up in smoke. It's not only mildly pathetic that you feel this way, it's an outright indictment on your character. Sad, Jeff, truly sad.................


Tim.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am sure many of these guys are guilty, but MLB was having rumblings over steroids just like football did back in the 80s when Canseco and McGuire were on the A's and I did not see the ground swell back then for drug testing. The NFL started drug testing soon after Lyle Alzado (sp??) was going around claiming he was dying because of long time steroid use. And I am sure there were many more than 1% of players using as well. Peace

I witness two young men grow substantially bigger in high school (1980-82). Both young men went on to play small time college football. Reportedly, one later became a "body guard/bouncer" and was gunned down in Atlanta by one of those Mac-10s/oizies (Sp?) before their ban and 15 round ammo clips were reduced to 10. Reportedly, gang execution. Funny nothing has changed very seriously about the death of young black men at the hands of young black men. But a few F&^k*)G pitt bulls die at the hands of a black man and America is in an uproar!

1985 to 2005, MLB did nothing about steroids. The leading cause of death for black teenagers wasn't steroids. I predict it will continue for at least another 5 years until folks in the NFL, NBA, and MLB finally bring attention to the minority genocide taking place. Will see if the recent death of a football star will have any impact.

RIP #21.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Let me give you an example of why I have a problem with this report. David Justice was accused of using steroids because he had a conversation with someone associated with a club he was on. No paper trail, no eyewitness reports, just a conversation that he had years ago about the drug which even did not suggest that Justice claimed he was using or used the drugs previously.

I keep bring it back to officiating. Would it be fair if you worked a conferences and someone took a conversation you had years ago and assumed that you helped throw a game all based on a conversation? Then as a result you are known as a cheater by everyone because your name was put in a report with people they actually proved or admitted to throwing games? I put this on the same plane as NBA Officials being mentioned in a report about throwing games with Tim Donaghy based only on information that they had a conversation with Donaghy or were accused by Donaghy without any cooperation and then the accused official also loses their job or their reputation.

Would that be fair?

Peace

Spurs/Suns play tonight. I'll watch for cheaters.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

What little shred of respect I had for you just went up in smoke. It's not only mildly pathetic that you feel this way, it's an outright indictment on your character. Sad, Jeff, truly sad.................


Tim.

I really hope that you are not thinking I actually give a damn that you had respect for me in the first place. Sorry, just keeping it real.

Peace

[jimpiano]

Michael Vick will never play a down again in the NFL.
By the time he is released 1350 new NFL players will have been drafted with credentials equal or better than his.

Moreover, 10-20 quarterbacks for Atlanta will have gotten more reps than he has in cleaning toilets in cell bock 13.

And the CFl is not an option since convicted felons cannot travel across international borders.

[greymule]

SAump's recent post prompted me to supply this link to U.S. Department of Justice statistics on "Criminal Victimization in the United States," broken down by a wide number of categories, including race. The web page has links to files containing statistics from 1996 to 2005, and many of the figures are truly astounding. In reading some of the charts, I have had to pause in disbelief and look at the figures several times to be sure I'm reading them properly.

The statistical tables report only on crimes that had human victims.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/cvusst.htm

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I really hope that you are not thinking I actually give a damn that you had respect for me in the first place. Sorry, just keeping it real.

Peace

Well, his post was not that funny. You go ahead and live your life as you choose, and feel free to ignore our input. You are right, it doesn't matter at all whatever people say on this forum. It's a free-for-all at best, and we are all free-thinkers. Each of us has the right to our own opinions and the right to express them. Just keep in mind that your opinions in this matter are in the minority. That means that less than 50% of the people feel the way you do. See how condescending that sounds when someone tells you what something means, as if you didn't already know?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Whether Rutledge wants to admit it or not, he is in the minority on this one. Most people are very outraged about it, and feel Vick got off easy. Just read any blog or forum about the case, and you will see the vast majority of folks feel that Vick showed no remorse and is not in the least sorry for his actions. Sorry he got caught is what he is. He called his crimes "immature." Yeah, like most 14 year olds are running dog fighting rings. He still has not said that what he did was sick, repulsive and disgusting, which tells me that he's not really sorry.

Rutledge, I grew up in a very rural setting. My dog had the run of 2/3 acre plus a huge field (5 or 6 acres) next to our house. Nobody I know of abused their animals. And I've never met anyone who puts their dog in a purse as a fashion accessory. You are confusing celebrities with the real people again. You watch too much TV.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by SAump

Vick lost $70 million in contracts and endorsements and is also doing jail time. Few would agree with your assessment.
Attorneys address those things, saving Michael time and money. Do you think Michael isn't listening?

Again, put down the bong and come down before posting. Maintain, dude. I said that he lost a lot of money. It is his fault.

Originally Posted by SAump

Don't hate him cause he's young or black or quarterback. Vick has become that token symbol for America.

That is the most stupid, bigoted statement I think I've ever heard. If he were old, white and a garbage collector, we the people would feel exactly the same way. I am so sick of people trying to use the race card, or excuse one's actions because of their race. How pathetic.

Originally Posted by SAump

Some would argue that it is humane to kill animals severly injured and on the verge of death.

You have a point here. After Vick's dogs were no longer able to perform because of his sick dog fighting, the dogs were probably happy to die. There are still humane ways of euthenizing an animal, such as an intravenous shot. You don't have to beat their heads into the pavement or electrocute them or hang them. If you think that is acceptable, you are a sick puppy yourself.

Originally Posted by SAump

If you value human life {abolish death penalty, abortion, torture, genocide, etc.} then I respect your opinion. Otherwise, its crap, dog.

Abolish the death penalty? Why would I want to do this. Kill someone/lose your life. Check it out, it's biblical.

I am anti-abortion. It's your side of the aisle that promotes that barbaric form of birth-control for women who go get knocked up but fail to think of the circumstances that follow.

Torture, genocide? What torture are you talking about? If you mean the terrorists at Gitmo, I'm all for it. Otherwise, I'm against it. I am pro-Sudan and I hate any kind of genocide. Am I in now?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Well, his post was not that funny. You go ahead and live your life as you choose, and feel free to ignore our input. You are right, it doesn't matter at all whatever people say on this forum. It's a free-for-all at best, and we are all free-thinkers. Each of us has the right to our own opinions and the right to express them. Just keep in mind that your opinions in this matter are in the minority. That means that less than 50% of the people feel the way you do. See how condescending that sounds when someone tells you what something means, as if you didn't already know?

Wow, maybe now I will change my mind.....................................NOT!!!!!

Peace

[SAump]

News of 70 dogs "put down" simply for being pitt bulls.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=PyLY599eA_c
Majority opinion
http://youtube.com/watch?v=0TaB-4m_AXg&feature=related
Vick and associates record
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zkhTgPcQ_Pc&feature=related
The apology
http://youtube.com/watch?v=iEo9ZboWYfk&feature=related
Minority opinion {Warning for Language Content}
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-et1R...eature=related
The Indictment states max 6 years, $350 in fines
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwXYS...eature=related
ESPN reports 90% reach plea agreement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-et1R...eature=related
PETA's position on dogfighting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDuRP...eature=related
Cultural affairs comment
http://youtube.com/watch?v=LwxODTAaBOA&feature=related
The Reverand Sharpton speaks
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GaQsmGaZJzk&feature=related
Today's Idiot translates his message
http://youtube.com/watch?v=YlH5UBZbGvI&feature=related

[SAump]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Again, put down the bong and come down before posting. Maintain, dude. I said that he lost a lot of money. It is his fault.

You said he got off easy. He deserved a harsher punishment. Blah Blah Blah

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

That is the most stupid, bigoted statement I think I've ever heard. If he were old, white and a garbage collector, we the people would feel exactly the same way. I am so sick of people trying to use the race card, or excuse one's actions because of their race. How pathetic.

Sometimes I think I am on another planet. I suppose token may have been taken out of context too. Remember Doug Williams. Did the same description of him 20 years ago offend anyone?

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

You have a point here. After Vick's dogs were no longer able to perform because of his sick dog fighting, the dogs were probably happy to die. There are still humane ways of euthenizing an animal, such as an intravenous shot. You don't have to beat their heads into the pavement or electrocute them or hang them. If you think that is acceptable, you are a sick puppy yourself.

I prefer shooting pitt bulls and burying them. I am too scared to approach them with needles, electricity, a hangsman noose, or a tub of water. All legal forms of public execution. Did you imply dogs deserve any better?

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Abolish the death penalty? Why would I want to do this. Kill someone/lose your life. Check it out, it's biblical. I am anti-abortion. It's your side of the aisle that promotes that barbaric form of birth-control for women who go get knocked up but fail to think of the circumstances that follow. Torture, genocide? What torture are you talking about? If you mean the terrorists at Gitmo, I'm all for it. Otherwise, I'm against it. I am pro-Sudan and I hate any kind of genocide. Am I in now?

Big time.