Need a rule referance and ruling, I can't find one.

[3appleshigh]

For this situation True or false, with rule citation please.

Team at bat has 10 eligable players, and are using a DH. Top of 5th 3rd baseman, in the ON DECK CIRCLE gets ejected for arguing balls and strikes, "the pitcher cannot come to bat since he can only pinch hit for the DH"

I know we can't forfiet the game, because they can field a team of 9 - Rule 4.17, but the DH rule does says no pinch hit, rule 6.10 B. I'm confused, what say you guys.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Rule 6.10

The Designated Hitter may be used defensively, continuing to bat in the same position in the batting order, but the pitcher must then bat in the place of the substituted defensive player....

So bat F1 in the ejected player's spot, and bring the DH in to play 3B, keeping his spot in the lineup.

[Bulldog]

OBR 6.10(b)
In this scenario, the DH enters the game and replaces the 3rd baseman on defense but is still locked in the batting rotation. The pitcher will assume the batting position of the defensive player.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by Bulldog

OBR 6.10(b)
In this scenario, the DH enters the game and replaces the 3rd baseman on defense but is still locked in the batting rotation. The pitcher will assume the batting position of the defensive player.

The DH is hitting in the pitcher's slot. You cannot enter the pitcher in another position in the batting order. I believe the question being asked is what if the team cannot field a line up of nine batters?

[bobbybanaduck]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

The DH is hitting in the pitcher's slot. You cannot enter the pitcher in another position in the batting order. I believe the question being asked is what if the team cannot field a line up of nine batters?

incorrect. while the game pitcher may only pinch hit for the DH, he can and must enter the batting order if the DH enters the game defensively. in the original sitch, when the 3rd baseman gets dumped, the manager must enter the DH defensively at 3B (keeping him in his spot in the batting order), which then forces the pitcher to bat in the spot vacated by the ejected 3B.

6.10(b) paragraph 5

The Designated Hitter may be used defensively, continuing to bat in the same opsition in the batting order, but the pitcher must then bat in the place of the substituted defensive player...

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

incorrect. while the game pitcher may only pinch hit for the DH, he can and must enter the batting order if the DH enters the game defensively. in the original sitch, when the 3rd baseman gets dumped, the manager must enter the DH defensively at 3B (keeping him in his spot in the batting order), which then forces the pitcher to bat in the spot vacated by the ejected 3B.

6.10(b) paragraph 5

The Designated Hitter may be used defensively, continuing to bat in the same position in the batting order, but the pitcher must then bat in the place of the substituted defensive player...

Exactly. Not in the spot of the player who was ejected, unless the DH was ejected. Using the DH is like having ten starters in the batting order for all abject purposes, only two starters bat in the same spot.

[bobbybanaduck]

what?

[3appleshigh]

Thanks guys, but does it matter that we are not in a Defensive postion? I.E. the third baseman was ejected as an offensive player. I think this is where my issues lie. But I do agree with what has been discussed so far. Thanks a lot.

[bobbybanaduck]

the game pitcher may only pinch hit for the DH. agreed. but, now that the 3Bman has been dumped, the DH enters the game defensively at 3B. there is no more DH. it's now a 9 man lineup, former DH at 3B batting wherever he was batting, P now hits in the spot vacated by the 3Bman that was dumped. the pitcher isn't pinch hitting for the DH, he has entered the game offensively as a direct result of the DH entering the game defensively.

[bobbybanaduck]

Originally Posted by 3appleshigh

Thanks guys, but does it matter that we are not in a Defensive postion? I.E. the third baseman was ejected as an offensive player. I think this is where my issues lie. But I do agree with what has been discussed so far. Thanks a lot.

no. the lineup is the lineup.

[RPatrino]

This isn't really that difficult to figure out. There are nine batting slots in the lineup. The ejection of the 3b caused a 'vacancy' in that slot, leaving 8 batting positions. There is only one player currently NOT in the batting order, that would be P, who is eligible to enter that slot. Because the pitcher entered the lineup the DH must play defensively, and there is only one open defensive spot, 3b.

[bossman72]

in FED ball, we have a forfeit since the DH and batter are locked into position, correct? im hazy and havent looked at my fed book for quite a while

[Steven Tyler]

The key word is ejected, not substituted. I would have to believe this wouldn't be allowed as the rule is written. In MLB, you cannot do the double switch with players in the line up. Take for example. Last batter of the seventh is called out on strikes, argues and gets thrown out of the game. The manager wants to bring in a reliever and put him in the spot that player got ejected and put a position player in the pitcher's spot so he won't have to waste a pitcher or a pinch hitter. It is not allowed. You must substitute only for the player who is ejected.

A substitute for an ejection is totally different than an a substitution for a player.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by bossman72

in FED ball, we have a forfeit since the DH and batter are locked into position, correct? im hazy and havent looked at my fed book for quite a while

You can bat eight in FED. When that position in the order comes up, the offense takes an out. The line up can return to nine.

[D-Man]

This is a simple substitution and not a pinch hitting situation. At any time, a team can choose to terminate their DH priveledge. In this case the F5 made this decision for them, nevertheless the F5 has been ejected. A team is not required to have a DH and the DH may play defense so he goes in to play third (DH role is terminated) and KEEPS HIS BATTING SLOT. The pitcher is then required, by rule, to take the batting spot of the replaced defensive player.

The DH is not being pinch hit for. He is still in the game and in his batting slot. He is no longer the DH. He is the new third baseman.

The pitcher must occupy a batting slot since the offense has lost it's DH priveledge. There are no more eligible substitutes so the offense has no choice but to put him in the vacated (ejected) third baseman's batting slot.

The ejection makes no difference in this case. If the F5 did not mouth off and the offensive coach wanted the DH to play third (or any other defensive position) then the former DH would stay where he is in the batting order and the pitcher would take the spot of the replaced player, unless the DH was coming in to pitch. In that case the batting order would not change at all. In both cases the role of DH would be terminated for the rest of the game.

D