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Old Mon Feb 10, 2003, 06:13pm
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Situation. A1 is inbounding ball on baseline at team A's bucket. A1 throws ball up and over backboard (ball doesn't hit cables or anything) and inbounds. I know that A1 should not be directly behind the backboard to inbound the ball, but even when off to the side a pass up and over can still occur. I know this is a violation but cannot find reference to this in the NFHS books. Can anyone point this out to me???

Thanks.
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Old Mon Feb 10, 2003, 06:17pm
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Rule 7 Out of Bounds and the Throw-in
SECTION 1 OUT-OF-BOUNDS — PLAYER, BALL
NOTE: When the rectangular backboard is used, the ball is out of bounds if it passes over the backboard.
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Old Mon Feb 10, 2003, 06:47pm
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It is legal, however, if you are using a fan backboard.
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Old Mon Feb 10, 2003, 06:51pm
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Thumbs up You are correct, sir

with respect to the fan backboard - no penalty.
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Old Mon Feb 10, 2003, 07:18pm
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May I take a moment ........

to complement a coach who is very well versed on the rules.

I know I'm very new here, bet where I come from, you just don't see that. My congratulations to you Hawks Coach.

If I may ask a question of you ~
Do you also officiate the game?
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Old Mon Feb 10, 2003, 08:07pm
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Question Re: You are correct, sir

Quote:
Originally posted by Hawks Coach
with respect to the fan backboard - no penalty.
I've wondered for years about this. What is the deal with OOB/rectangle v. not OOB/fan? This apparent inconsistency has existed for years, so there must be a reason for it. Right? Anybody care to enlighten me?

For that matter, why have fan-shaped backboards at all?
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Old Mon Feb 10, 2003, 08:31pm
ace ace is offline
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Watch out now

Here come all the ol "rule geezers". LOL just picking guys... i've often wondered this myself. so take my joke lightly and explain it to us... whos the man with all the answers around here?
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Old Mon Feb 10, 2003, 08:59pm
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Re: May I take a moment ........

Quote:
Originally posted by Blackhawk357
to complement a coach who is very well versed on the rules.

I know I'm very new here, bet where I come from, you just don't see that. My congratulations to you Hawks Coach.

If I may ask a question of you ~
Do you also officiate the game?
No - I just coach. I came on this board with a couple of (now simple to me) rules questions, learned from the "ol' geezers" about how to find it in the book, and have stayed around for a few years. I like the members, I learn a lot, and like the opportunity to provide an alternate perspective. Plus I just like to argue anyway

I do believe firmly that more coaches should learn the rules, and how they are enforced, so they can train players properly. It is amazing how many players and coaches walk around with terrible misconceptions in their heads, when those issues could easily be resolved with a little attention to the rules of the game.
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Old Mon Feb 10, 2003, 09:02pm
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Re: Watch out now

Quote:
Originally posted by ace
Here come all the ol "rule geezers". LOL just picking guys... i've often wondered this myself. so take my joke lightly and explain it to us... whos the man with all the answers around here?
It's actually a calculus/geometry answer - not an "ol geezer" answer.

The violation is for the ball passing over the "top" of the backboard. That is, if it passes by the "side" edges, there is no violation.

When you have a curve, there is only one point (infintesimally small) that is the true "top." Therefore, the ball would always be passing partially "over" the side - so a fan backboard doesn't carry a violation for going over.
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Old Mon Feb 10, 2003, 09:03pm
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Fan backboards

Quote:
Originally posted by Back In The Saddle

I've wondered for years about this. What is the deal with OOB/rectangle v. not OOB/fan? This apparent inconsistency has existed for years, so there must be a reason for it. Right? Anybody care to enlighten me?

For that matter, why have fan-shaped backboards at all?
First, why fans? They are far cheaper, and last forever. If you are in an area with lots of fan backboards, they probably don't have the money in the school system to afford the plexiglass.

As for the difference in the rule, I think it is simply that there is no dividing point for the top of the backboard on a fan backboard. But maybe one of the geezers has more to offer.
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Old Tue Feb 11, 2003, 12:05am
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Hmmm, I'm not buying it. It would be a simple matter to define over the "top" as being above the backboard between the two flat sides. That definition would be consistent between the two types.

This brings to mind another, related question: what if part of the ball passes over a rectangular backboard. In other words, if the ball was thrown "over" the backboard, but only part of it passed over the top between the sides. How much is enough to call it out of bounds?

entirely over = OOB
3/4 over?
1/2 over?
1/4 over?
< 1/4 over?

[Edited by Back In The Saddle on Feb 10th, 2003 at 11:58 PM]
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Old Tue Feb 11, 2003, 12:36am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Back In The Saddle
Hmmm, I'm not buying it. It would be a simple matter to define over the "top" as being above the backboard between the two flat sides. That definition would be consistent between the two types.
Not all fan backboards have two flat sides.
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Old Tue Feb 11, 2003, 01:02am
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Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Not all fan backboards have two flat sides.
Not that I've seen many, so I can't speak to reality. But according to the diagram on page 10 of the rulebook, the legal ones have flat sides.
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Old Tue Feb 11, 2003, 09:39am
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Not sure what the point is about "legal" backboards. NFHS puts a rulebook out, and then you ref the games where they are played. Most HS gyms have the normal plexiglass backboards. The places you tend to find a lesser board is in rec centers, elementary schools, and some middle schools. You play with what they got in my experience.

We played with a rectangular wooden backboard and no markings on Sunday. Ball bounced off the board fine and it was securely fastened (i.e., no safety issue). I have played games in that rec center for 5 years with the same BBs. They have 30-40 games per weekend there. Is it legal by NFHS diagrams - no. Do we use NFHS rules - yes. Did we play the game - yes.
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Old Tue Feb 11, 2003, 10:54am
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Hmm, the geometry argument is, in my mind, silly. I suspect the real reason has more to do with a recognition of how the ball plays off the fan vs. how it plays off the rectangle. B/c the fan is so much smaller, shots will flip over the edges and still be in rbl playing area more often. the expansion to a rectangle kept most shots in play.
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