MLBU - what kind of program would you run

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by GarthB

No, I didn't miss your point. It's that your point is incorrect.

According to the NFL League office, for a period of time, all new NFL Officials saw duty in what was later called NFL Europe while they were still calling college ball.

I disagree because I heard this from a current NFL official what they had to do. We are just going to have to disagree on this. My information is more than one interview on a website.

And if you ask me, MLB has the worst system of hiring umpires. They limit their pool of qualified people by requiring people to attend a class that almost eliminates anyone with a job or a family. Then they require people to be away for months from the rest of civilization to work a game that almost no one hears anything about. I have a friend that is in the Minor League System and he is not going to work winter ball in Venezuela until February. Now he does not have children and is not married and the few times he is home he still lives with his parents. Now I know guys that cannot work another sport because their spouse gets mad they are away from home too much and they get to sleep in the same house on a daily basis.

I think the NFL system is more reasonable. I think officials in the NFL are some of the better officials in pro sports. I think the NBA has a more reasonable system because the official being considered can still come home on a regular basis. And the NBA does solicit officials that work the college ranks as well and takes into account someone’s full experiences where MLB does not seemed to care about what you did before you got into their system. And the worst thing is that they never seem to fire a single umpire for anything. MLB Umpires can totally screw up and they still have a job after the end of the season. If you want the best people, use all officials with vastly different backgrounds.

Peace

[mbyron]

It doesn't make sense to "agree to disagree" on a factual question. One of you is wrong (or you're talking past each other, which seems possible).

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mbyron

It doesn't make sense to "agree to disagree" on a factual question. One of you is wrong (or you're talking past each other, which seems possible).

I disagree because the information I have comes from another source and in my opinion a very knowledgably source. And it also came from a person I know personally and how they were given an opportunity. This person has spoken many times about his rise to the NFL as well as 2 other individuals.

And in the bigger picture, it really does not matter because NFL Europe is no longer. So what they used to do is not even relevant anymore. Arena ball is not 7 man mechanics with the similar rules or judgments. I doubt Arena ball (which is owned by the NFL) is going to rely on that game as a prerequisite before you get a job in the NFL. The NFL uses the Arena Leagues as a testing ground in many ways, but I doubt it will have as much wait as the MLB system to hire umpires.

Peace

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I disagree because I heard this from a current NFL official what they had to do. We are just going to have to disagree on this. My information is more than one interview on a website.

Peace

And mine comes from interviewing several NFL officals and from a wrtitten statement from the NFL office of the supervisor of officials I solicited and received while preparing the article. I'll take that info over a chat any day, Jeff.

And remember, Jeff. This is all addressing a practice that occurred during a point in time. Not today.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by GarthB

And mine comes from interviewing several NFL officals and from a wrtitten statement from the NFL office of the supervisor of officials I solicited and received while preparing the article. I'll take that info over a chat any day, Jeff.

And remember, Jeff. This is all addressing a practice that occurred during a point in time. Not today.

Garth, it was not a chat. The official gave a several presentations about their climb to the top. I am not under the impression they were lying to just make a point. And this person was in the NFL during the NFL Europe era.

NFL Europe just stopped this year. It is not like anyone is being hired right now.

Peace

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Garth, it was not a chat. The official gave a several presentations about their climb to the top. I am not under the impression they were lying to just make a point. And this person was in the NFL during the NFL Europe era.

NFL Europe just stopped this year. It is not like anyone is being hired right now.

Peace

I give up. You're right Jeff. Jerry Seamen was wrong. Obviously as supervisor of officials he didn't have a clue as to what he was talking about. Sorry I brought it up. In the future when I'm collecting information on NFL officials instead of checking with the League office, I'll check with you.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by GarthB

I give up. You're right Jeff. Jerry Seamen was wrong. Obviously as supervisor of officials he didn't have a clue as to what he was talking about. Sorry I brought it up. In the future when I'm collecting information on NFL officials instead of checking with the League office, I'll check with you.

Jerry Seaman has not been the Supervisor for about 4 or 5 years now (I think longer but I am not completely sure). And the NFL did not own Arena ball the way they do now during Seaman's Supervisor role. I think some things have changed a bit as a matter of fact I know they have since Seaman left his post. So to take an old interview and apply it today is a stretch.

Not sure why you get so upset over this. I do know that the NFL does not do what MLB does and is likely never going to have that kind of opportunity to do so. The NFL even adopted a system of evaluating officials from youth levels to college to identify people that might be future NFL Officials. This was clearly something that was not going on in the Seaman era. BTW, I know one of the "evaluators" for that program. He is also a technical advisor for the Big Ten and assigns just about every college football game in the surrounding area. I guess I need to confer with an interview online to get my facts straight.

Peace

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Jerry Seaman has not been the Supervisor for about 4 or 5 years now (I think longer but I am not completely sure). And the NFL did not own Arena ball the way they do now during Seaman's Supervisor role. I think some things have changed a bit as a matter of fact I know they have since Seaman left his post. So to take an old interview and apply it today is a stretch.

Not sure why you get so upset over this.

I'm not upset, Jeff. I'm just correcting your incorrect statement that you made reagarding original post. What I posted was factual during the time I referenced. I got those facts first hand from Seamen who WAS the supervisor of officials during the time I referenced.

But you have become as elusive as jimpiano and continue to move the discussion away from what I was referencing. Bottom line, what I said was accurate despite your assertions to the opposite.

I guess I need to confer with an interview online to get my facts straight.

Peace

Who said they did that, Jeff? Not me. I didn't get my facts from the interview. I wrote the interview based on what I learned from various NFL officials, particularyly the on being interviewed and from Jerry Seamen, who was the supervisors of officials during the time Steve Wilson and I referenced.

But, again, I bow to your superior knowledge. I mean, what the hell would Jerry Seamen know? He probably didn't call you first.

[JRutledge]

Garth,

It really is pointless to keep debating this point. I was only trying to say that the NFL system of hiring officials was more dynamic than in your original post. In other words the NFL system was not as ridged as the MLB system that requires you to go through the latter. I also referenced people that talked openly about how they got hired and what they were required to do. It is possible that things have changed, but I stand by what I said for the most part as what I know personally. And personally I could give a damn because I am not going to be hired by the NFL anytime soon if ever so I was just passing along some info. After all, the OP was about a hypothetical and not a real situation. I would hope that we can at least keep that in perspective.

Peace

[3SPORT]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

1. It's a known fact that unless you make it to the BIGS it is very difficult to make a living on a Minor League umpires salary. One could make more money being manager of Wal-Mart


Pete Booth

Hey - I've got a friend who manages a Wal-Mart and believe it or not he is making over $100,000 per year.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Garth,

It really is pointless to keep debating this point.

No debate on this end...just statement of fact.

I was only trying to say that the NFL system of hiring officials was more dynamic than in your original post. In other words the NFL system was not as ridged as the MLB system that requires you to go through the latter.

And that's where you are wrong. At the point in time I was referencing, they did require time in Europe before moving up.

After all, the OP was about a hypothetical and not a real situation. I would hope that we can at least keep that in perspective.

The only reason I responded to your post was that you categorically declared the information I received from the NFL office as inaccurate without considering when that information came or from whom. I always respond when someone casts doubt on my honesty.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by GarthB

No debate on this end...just statement of fact.

And that's where you are wrong. At the point in time I was referencing, they did require time in Europe before moving up.

The only reason I responded to your post was that you categorically declared the information I received from the NFL office as inaccurate without considering when that information came or from whom. I always respond when someone casts doubt on my honesty.

That is great but Seaman has not been in that role for awhile. At the very least we could talk about the current system or what the current President of Officiating does. A lot has changed since Seaman retired from that post (mechanics, rules, and philosophies on how to call the game). NFL Europe in the very beginning also had teams in the United States and required a player or two from the country the team was located in. I believe that went away after a few years too. Now there is no more NFL Europe. Go figure.

Peace

[MrUmpire]

Garth,

Give it up. He will never agree to the same playing field. Everytime you explain your statement as referring to a specific time and activity, he tries to show that it doesn't apply to some other time or activity and considers that some kind of victory.

Bob and weave, bob and weave.

He reminds me of the bloke who thought "doesn't alter" and "yes we alter" in that other thread were synonomous. (I hope I didn't start that thread over again.)

By the way, I'll be in Queens for a conference. Any chance of running into Adam?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Garth,

Give it up. He will never agree to the same playing field. Everytime you explain your statement as referring to a specific time and activity, he tries to show that it doesn't apply to some other time or activity and considers that some kind of victory.

Bob and weave, bob and weave.

He reminds me of the bloke who thought "doesn't alter" and "yes we alter" in that other thread were synonomous. (I hope I didn't start that thread over again.)

By the way, I'll be in Queens for a conference. Any chance of running into Adam?

You are right. Let us discuss something from over 5 years ago and the conditions surrounding what once was a long time ago even thought the league just expired this past summer.

You are right, that is really based on what was going on during the Mike Perriera era.

And for the record Mike Pereira has been the Vice President of Officiating since 2001, succeeding Seaman. Things like playoff assignments and some major mechanics changes came under his reign. I am going to assume how people were hired also changed a little. Just a guess.

Peace

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Garth,

Give it up. He will never agree to the same playing field. Everytime you explain your statement as referring to a specific time and activity, he tries to show that it doesn't apply to some other time or activity and considers that some kind of victory.

Bob and weave, bob and weave.

He reminds me of the bloke who thought "doesn't alter" and "yes we alter" in that other thread were synonomous. (I hope I didn't start that thread over again.)

By the way, I'll be in Queens for a conference. Any chance of running into Adam?

You apparently are correct and I have surrendered. I've re-learned a lesson here.

Adam, while still in Queens, moved to Rockaway. The beach area is being gentrified and he's found a nice two bedroom cottage that he can afford. He'll be getting a car soon, so "running into him" might be an accurate way to put it. He hasn't driven in Manhattan yet, but since many of his gigs are in the Village, he'll have to get used to it.

I'll email you his phone number and email.