The Lofton Out at Second

[David B]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

Seems to me that the play at second where Kenny Lofton was out on a nice throw from Manny Ramirez is a perfect example of why instant replay is a bad idea in MLB.

Lofton went in hand first, the umpire was in perfect position and the ball beat Lofton, but slow mo replays showed Lofton's hand beat the tag which first grazed the bag as it swept toward him.

Lofton never argued the call and went back to the dugout. It is a play that is called the same way hundreds, if not thousands, of times in the regular season.

The players know that a slide into the tag when the ball is there the result is most likely an out, even if the foot or hand gets in.

Agonizing on each of those calls over slo-mo replays would serve no useful purpose and delay the game to the point of boredom.

I agree with the jest of your post, there after all was no argument from anyone; however, the umpire was "on top of the play" literally.

He was way too close to the play for some reason and might have been a problem on the call. He probably could have seen it from a better distance, it looked on TV like he was only about five feet from the call.

Don't know how that happened ...

Thansk
David

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by David B

I agree with the jest of your post

I don't believe he was joking, but I got the "gist" of what he was saying.

I also don't believe that the umpire was "too close" to the play. He just made the "expected call," which was the correct call for that situation. Still not a reason to institute instant replay.

Yes, it was that one darn call on Kenny Lofton that lost the game for the Indians.

Oh well, back to burning up.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by David B

I agree with the jest of your post, there after all was no argument from anyone; however, the umpire was "on top of the play" literally.

I don't think he was joking.

Lofton tried to catch Ramirez napping, and failed. I didn't notice the umpire too close to the play.

[BigTex]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I didn't notice the umpire too close to the play.

If you see the replay from the camera angle behind first base (looking up the a$$ end of the play), you will see Lofton's right foot make contact with the umpire's front foot. That is way too close. I am not saying that his being too close played any part in his making the call (either the "expected" call or the wrong one, whichever side of the debate you are on), but he was definitely too close.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by BigTex

If you see the replay from the camera angle behind first base (looking up the a$$ end of the play), you will see Lofton's right foot make contact with the umpire's front foot. That is way too close. I am not saying that his being too close played any part in his making the call (either the "expected" call or the wrong one, whichever side of the debate you are on), but he was definitely too close.

Wing nut U2 didn't hustle to get proper positioning more than likely. He either thought it was a sure double or Lofton wasn't going attempt second. Poor mechanics for a game seven playoff umpire.

The expected call in a playoff game. Give me a break.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Wing nut U2 didn't hustle to get proper positioning more than likely. He either thought it was a sure double or Lofton wasn't going attempt second. Poor mechanics for a a game seven playoff umpire.

The expected call in a playoff game. Give me a break.

Lofton --> didn't say a word to the umpire
Wedge --> stayed in the dugout

Must've been a HORRIBLE call if the only complaints were by the rabble-rousing announcers.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Lofton --> didn't say a word to the umpire
Wedge --> stayed in the dugout

Must've been a HORRIBLE call if the only complaints were by the rabble-rousing announcers.

I think we have come full circle to the point of this thread.
Sort of like the brouhaha over McClelland's call in the Padres/Athletics' game.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Lofton --> didn't say a word to the umpire
Wedge --> stayed in the dugout

Must've been a HORRIBLE call if the only complaints were by the rabble-rousing announcers.

Don'r forget the unhappy internet umpires. That's a force to be reckoned with.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Don'r forget the unhappy internet umpires. That's a force to be reckoned with.

You misspelt "farce".

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by BigTex

If you see the replay from the camera angle behind first base (looking up the a$$ end of the play), you will see Lofton's right foot make contact with the umpire's front foot. That is way too close. I am not saying that his being too close played any part in his making the call (either the "expected" call or the wrong one, whichever side of the debate you are on), but he was definitely too close.

I'm not arguing with you. I just didn't notice it.

[David B]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I don't think he was joking.

Lofton tried to catch Ramirez napping, and failed. I didn't notice the umpire too close to the play.

Watch the replay, there is no way that's where you want to be to make this call.

At least not a MLB umpire, that's a LL mistake.

I would have made the same call, but I would have made it from 12 -15 feet

thanks
David

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by David B

Watch the replay, there is no way that's where you want to be to make this call.

At least not a MLB umpire, that's a LL mistake.

I would have made the same call, but I would have made it from 12 -15 feet

thanks
David

12- 15 feet!!!!!!!!!!! That's why you're not in the show.

[TxUmp]

Among other reasons.

[cmckenna]

But if you watched the replay when they showed it again in one of the later innings, you could clearly see that yes Lofton's hand did touch the base but then he clearly came up off the bag and there was a time, while the tag was in contact where no part of Lofton was touching the bag.

Good call.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by cmckenna

But if you watched the replay when they showed it again in one of the later innings, you could clearly see that yes Lofton's hand did touch the base but then he clearly came up off the bag and there was a time, while the tag was in contact where no part of Lofton was touching the bag.

Good call.

It's obvious you would have missed the call in real time and in instant replay. The tag had most definitely come off of Lofton by the time he had come of the base. I had originally thought from the original camera angle this was reason for the out call, if Lofton was out at all. My contention is that poor positioning or lack of hustle by U2 is the major reasoning the call was incorrect.

I do not attend nor watch baseball games to witness the umpires in action. However, I cannot recall a U2 taking a throw from left field and making a call from that position. From the cut of the grass inside the infield, yes. From behind second with the runner between him, no.

BTW-No argument by Wedge or Lofton doesn't mean they don't think a close call wasn't missed. That's just part of the game. Poor positioning by a MLB umpire shouldn't be.