Game Management

[SanDiegoSteve]

As much as I normally stick up for the umpires, I don't do so blindly as if following a cult leader. I don't believe in towing the party line. If Winters went out of his way to provoke Bradley, then he was in the wrong. If Bradley initiated the trouble, then I will blame him. It seems to me that both parties, plus Runge had a part in this. We shall see.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Alright then, how about Jerry Coleman. Who wants to bad mouth the WWII war hero and HOFer? He said that the umpiring that went on Sunday was the absolute worst he has ever seen and that there will be major implications when this shakes out.

When the Colonel says it's the worst, it's the worst.

From his vantage point in the broadcast booth I'm sure Jerry heard and saw everything. {sarcasm=Off}

Jerry's a homer from the word go.

Why do you feel the need to latch on to the flavor of the hour to hang Mike Winters?

Why not wait until it is all sorted out and then, if Mike is guilty of something, MLB will take appropriate action. If he isn't you all can put your ropes away.

Between Todd Helton and a lip reading expert, the truth will be known. Relax. You impartial Padre fans can wait a day.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Alright then, how about Jerry Coleman. Who wants to bad mouth the WWII war hero and HOFer? He said that the umpiring that went on Sunday was the absolute worst he has ever seen and that there will be major implications when this shakes out.

When the Colonel says it's the worst, it's the worst.

Coleman is the worst ****ing homer I've ever heard and a lousy announcer to boot.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

As much as I normally stick up for the umpires, I don't do so blindly as if following a cult leader.

But that is exactly how you've been damning Winters...blindly, quoting one "expert" after another.

What do you have against waiting for the facts before ripping the umpire?

[spokanelurker]

What do you have against waiting for the facts before ripping anyone who entertains the notion that Mike Winters may have been the instigator? Quit portraying yourself as the unbiased voice of reason, Garth. You're anything but.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by spokanelurker

What do you have against waiting for the facts before ripping anyone who entertains the notion that Mike Winters may have been the instigator? Quit portraying yourself as the unbiased voice of reason, Garth. You're anything but.

If you read the posts, you will note that I haven't placed blame on anyone. I have criticized those who have permaturely blamed Winters. If at the end of the investigation that's where the blame belongs, so be it. But until then, neither party should be hung in the press or on the boards.

Voice of reason? Nahhhhhh, I've never claimed that. Patient enough to see the facts come out? Yeah. I've grown far more patient over the years.

I also don't feel the need to hide behind a phony name. That's usually for people with something to hide, or cowards or liars.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by GarthB

If you read the posts, you will note that I haven't placed blame on anyone. I have criticized those who have permaturely blamed Winters. If at the end of the investigation that's where the blame belongs, so be it. But until then, neither party should be hung in the press or on the boards.

Voice of reason? Nahhhhhh, I've never claimed that. Patient enough to see the facts come out? Yeah. I've grown far more patient over the years.

I also don't feel the need to hide behind a phony name. That's usually for people with something to hide.

I found it funny that all the talking heads (mainly on ESPN Radio) this morning were taking Bradley's side. As if the umpire should just thank his lucky stars he's on the field and should repeat to himself over and over "I'm not the show, I'm not the show."

The announcer world and the rest of the world is so anti-official it shouldn't surprise me. But Bradley *is* a major league a-hole and everyone knows that. So it surprised me when everyone started blaming the calm, collected umpire (only one person in that altercation didn't lose his cool and it wasn't Bradley).

[reddevil19]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I found it funny that all the talking heads (mainly on ESPN Radio) this morning were taking Bradley's side. As if the umpire should just thank his lucky stars he's on the field and should repeat to himself over and over "I'm not the show, I'm not the show."

The announcer world and the rest of the world is so anti-official it shouldn't surprise me. But Bradley *is* a major league a-hole and everyone knows that. So it surprised me when everyone started blaming the calm, collected umpire (only one person in that altercation didn't lose his cool and it wasn't Bradley).

As apparently the only person who is reading this forum that was at the game and saw EVERYTHING that happened, I'm going to jump in again.

First, as a fan, someone who works in high school and JC athletics and someone who has both officiated and (gulp) coached both high school and midle school basketball, I respect the job officials do and baseball umpires in particular. However, as a fan of the game, I have never ever thought, "Wow, I get to watch 4 outstanding umpires tonight." So in a sense, I agree with the sentiment that umpires should not be the show.

Second, I don't find it that difficult to believe that someone who has practiced their craft for probably close to, if not over 30 years, perfecting it at its highest level, could maintain a perceived level of "calm" and "collected-ness," while at the same time getting some shots in. I'm not automatically agreeing with the assertion that Winters said anything racist, but he definitely added fuel.

Third, why not just get rid of Bradley on the spot in 5th if Winters thought it to be so out of line? If Winters would have tossed him (as I thought he was going to), no Padres fan or announcer would have thought anything other than Milton was stupid.

Finally, as this scenario played out, the Padres radio announcer on at the time (Ted Leitner and Andy Masur) were absolutely MURDERING Bradley. I agree 100% with Jerry Coleman and San Diego Steve, that if Coleman says it was the worst, it was the worst.

PS: Jerry Coleman is not even in the conversation for biggest homer or worst announcer. It starts with anyone working for the White Sox and ends with Ron Santo and has a lot of midwest and east coast trash in between

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by reddevil19

As apparently the only person who is reading this forum that was at the game and saw EVERYTHING that happened, I'm going to jump in again.

Most everyone has now seen EVERYTHING. What can be seen is not the issue.

Tell us what you heard Mike Winters say. The first base coach first said it was a racial slur. Now he says it was something that "could be taken" racially. What do you think?

[Steven Tyler]

I have it from a very good source in the Padres clubhouse that Winters provoked Bradley by calling him a "a ------- piece of ----."

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by GarthB

If you read the posts, you will note that I haven't placed blame on anyone. I have criticized those who have permaturely blamed Winters. If at the end of the investigation that's where the blame belongs, so be it. But until then, neither party should be hung in the press or on the boards.

Voice of reason? Nahhhhhh, I've never claimed that. Patient enough to see the facts come out? Yeah. I've grown far more patient over the years.

I also don't feel the need to hide behind a phony name. That's usually for people with something to hide, or cowards or liars.

You and Rich are never going to assign blame to an umpire, I know. Rip Jerry Coleman, whatever. He's a great man and this country still hasn't come close to repaying what he did for this country so blow the Jerry Coleman insults out your myopic wazzzoooos.

For the record, I have just been relaying what I've heard other people say. I have not formed an opinion either way yet, as the facts are not out there. If Jerry Coleman, who has forgotten (literally) more about baseball than you two put together have ever known says it was horrible, it was horrible. What does being a horrible announcer (Hall of Fame horrible announcer) have to do with the facts?

No matter who did what, it was poorly managed by the umpires any way you look at it, if you take the time to realize that umpires are supposed to be held to a higher standard on the field than the players and coaches. Why, because they are in charge of keeping order. They are the ones who are supposed to keep cool when others are losing their grip on reality. The umpires aren't supposed to go out of their way to set up a player just because they have a history with them. I can bait 'em and run 'em with the best of them, but they have to do something to deserve it. Bradley may or may not have deserved to get run, but they had to work awfully hard to do it.

I said that I would come down on whichever side is at fault. I also said that I was going to wait and see like everyone else. I'm just not blindly putting my faith in the umpires. Don't you remember where I posted and said that I knew Mike personally and that he didn't strike me as someone who would do something like this? I even said in a post to Tyler that I wasn't there and he wasn't there so it's all just speculation still.

I'm not in the "umpires are always right so shut up" camp, I guess.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

I have it from a very good source in the Padres clubhouse that Winters provoked Bradley by calling him a "a ------- piece of ----."

Could you at least give us a few letters? Is this Wheel of Fortune or something?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I'm not in the "umpires are always right so shut up" camp, I guess.

I am not in that camp either, but I am not going to start throwing the umpire under the bus because some guy with a very bad track record starts going off either. Milton Bradley has a history of acting out with fans, umpires and players. And he got hurt overreacting to a comment. You can talk all day about being held to a higher standard, but I did not see Winters having to be restrained by anyone. Bradley even had the nerve to blame his injury on Winters.

And I am definitely not going to start taking the word of coaches and fellow players say happen. I have seen how they will lie to support their position even when others hear the conversation. Please, do not get on your high horse about what umpires should do based on a he said, he said situation.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am not in that camp either, but I am not going to start throwing the umpire under the bus because some guy with a very bad track record starts going off either. Milton Bradley has a history of acting out with fans, umpires and players. And he got hurt overreacting to a comment. You can talk all day about being held to a higher standard, but I did not see Winters having to be restrained by anyone. Bradley even had the nerve to blame his injury on Winters.

And I am definitely not going to start taking the word of coaches and fellow players say happen. I have seen how they will lie to support their position even when others hear the conversation. Please, do not get on your high horse about what umpires should do based on a he said, he said situation.

Well said imo. Spoken like a sports official, not a fanboy.

[reddevil19]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Most everyone has now seen EVERYTHING. What can be seen is not the issue.

Tell us what you heard Mike Winters say. The first base coach first said it was a racial slur. Now he says it was something that "could be taken" racially. What do you think?

As I said in my first foray, I didn't hear anything, because I don't have that kind of money. When I said "saw everything," I'm talking about the in between inning stuff that I guarantee is not available to those of you not there. The animated conversations between Winters and Froemming right after the fact, and Winters and Runge after the next half inning.

It's too bad this wasn't one of those Saturday afternon games with microphones in the bases. Then this would be over with already.