INT after ball 4

[UmpLarryJohnson]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

So, if the catcher's throw goes sailing out into center field, and R1 advances to 3rd as a result - you would let the play stand as played? Even if it was clear that the batter's "interference" played a role in the wild throw?

why would the Catcher be playing on r1 who cant be thrown out at Second?

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by UmpLarryJohnson

why would the Catcher be playing on r1 who cant be thrown out at Second?

1) Maybe the runner was stealing. Many catchers don't wait for the umpire to call the pitch a ball, they just throw, especially if there is any question as to whether the pitch was a ball or strike. Even if it's ball 4, R1 could be tagged out on an overslide.

2) Also, as I said before, if ball 4 occurred on a checked swing that is reversed to a strike - the runner is in jeopardy and can be thrown out. This is all going to happen simultaneously - the throw and the appeal. A smart runner will not trot on down to 2nd, as if it is "awarded", on a checked swing situation for this very reason. He'll hang out at 1st until the issue is resolved.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[ChucktownBlue]

Originally Posted by fitump56

Assuming that that Ball Four was called after the B interfered, which is what I take from "the batter leans over the outside part over the plate but does not swing. the catcher immediatly tries to throw to 2nd cause the runner was stealing", the call is obvious. You have B INT.

If after "Ball 4", then no B INT. Hell if I can tell by the OP.

Doesn't the catcher have to have the ball to be interferred with? So if the catcher has the ball, the pitch must have reached him. And if the pitch has reached him, the pitch must have been a ball or a strike before he could have been interferred with. Unless of course, he jumped out to get the ball before it reached th eplate, which is a whole nother sitch!

And how exactly does a batter lean over the outside part of the plate? Wouldn't he just be leaning across the plate? Why so compilcated?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

Let's say R1 is stealing on the play. The pitcher throws ball 4, the BR interferes with the catcher's throw down to 2nd, R1 overslides the bag and is tagged out?

I'm just making stuff up, now.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

On Ball 4, the batter is entitled to first base. He doesn't have to stand in his RH batter's box and say "mother may I" before going to first.

If it's intentional, it's interference. If not, it's not. Either way it's called, get ready to chunk somebody.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

On Ball 4, the batter is entitled to first base. He doesn't have to stand in his RH batter's box and say "mother may I" before going to first.

If it's intentional, it's interference. If not, it's not. Either way it's called, get ready to chunk somebody.

I agree Rich, at the moment it is declared a ball, B1 becomes a batter-runner entitled to first and R1 is entitled to 2B. At that point, if interference takes place intentionally, then you better be ready to deal with it if necessary.

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

On Ball 4, the batter is entitled to first base. He doesn't have to stand in his RH batter's box and say "mother may I" before going to first.

If it's intentional, it's interference. If not, it's not. Either way it's called, get ready to chunk somebody.

I agree with that. I wouldn't consider a batter who has just received a base-on-balls, passing in front of the catcher as interference.

Hell, I'm just trying to come up with reasons as to WHY the catcher would even be throwing down to 2nd after a walk. I think such reasons exist.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Hmm... what if the "interference" causes the throw to go into center field and R1 advances to third?

Then call it, naturally, BUT as you know you're dealing with a BR now, not a batter, and the interference must be intentional - a rather higher standard than for BI.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

I agree with that. I wouldn't consider a batter who has just received a base-on-balls, passing in front of the catcher as interference.

Hell, I'm just trying to come up with reasons as to WHY the catcher would even be throwing down to 2nd after a walk. I think such reasons exist.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

The catcher could think that the batter offered. The catcher could think that R1 may round second and put himself at jeopardy. I think that's a pretty exhaustive (2 items) list.

[johnnyg08]

Catcher's fault for throwing down to 2B on a walk...no INT here! don't care what rule set...not going to penalize the offense for the Def trying to make a play that they can't make anyway...live ball.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

The catcher could think that the batter offered. The catcher could think that R1 may round second and put himself at jeopardy. I think that's a pretty exhaustive (2 items) list.

Then again the catcher may not of been thinking at all and just reacting to the runner going to second.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

The catcher could think that the batter offered. The catcher could think that R1 may round second and put himself at jeopardy. I think that's a pretty exhaustive (2 items) list.

Who cares what the catcher thought...a good umpire will manage the game correctly...mechanically, the pitch is a ball until the umpire asks for help..yes, the catcher can appeal, but he's throwing down to 2B...and if the umpire is doing his job, he'll ask his partner right away in an effort to minimize any potential rhubarb...this situation might have unavoidable rhubarb if the catcher makes a dumb play like this...so it will come down to how you deal with the argument when the coach comes out of the dugout yelling and screaming on whatever team you penalized, if any...we all know that even the right call many times can mean an ejection...

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

Catcher's fault for throwing down to 2B on a walk...no INT here! don't care what rule set...not going to penalize the offense for the Def trying to make a play that they can't make anyway...live ball.

This has nothing to do with the catcher making a throw or not, the rules allow that. They do NOT allow an offensive player the right to intentionally interfere with the defense's right to make a play.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

Who cares what the catcher thought...a good umpire will manage the game correctly...mechanically, the pitch is a ball until the umpire asks for help..yes, the catcher can appeal, but he's throwing down to 2B...and if the umpire is doing his job, he'll ask his partner right away in an effort to minimize any potential rhubarb...this situation might have unavoidable rhubarb if the catcher makes a dumb play like this...so it will come down to how you deal with the argument when the coach comes out of the dugout yelling and screaming on whatever team you penalized, if any...we all know that even the right call many times can mean an ejection...

Wait a minute, I have been in many games where the catcher threw the ball instinctively.

There was no attempt here so why would you be asking for help.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by jicecone

This has nothing to do with the catcher making a throw or not, the rules allow that. They do NOT allow an offensive player the right to intentionally interfere with the defense's right to make a play.

By intentional, we'd better be picturing a BR jumping up to try to block a throw, or grabbing F2's arm, or something similar. BR has the right to run to first - just getting in the way of the throw is NOT interference, even if the ball is uncorked into center field, or bounces off BR's head out of play.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

By intentional, we'd better be picturing a BR jumping up to try to block a throw, or grabbing F2's arm, or something similar. BR has the right to run to first - just getting in the way of the throw is NOT interference, even if the ball is uncorked into center field, or bounces off BR's head out of play.

I agree with that.