Yankees-Red Sox out of baseline

[greymule]

I had Youkilis out yesterday and still have him out. From his position when this became a tag play, he moved at least 5 feet inward to avoid the tag.

The infield grass is just two feet inside the baseline

True, but irrelevant. If a runner is 3 feet to outfield side of the line and then moves 2 feet inside the line to avoid a tag, he's out of the base path. If Youkilis had started right on the direct line between 2B and 3B, then being on the grass would not have put him out of his base path.

[GarthB]

Here's an eye test for those who think the runner is not three feet out of his basepath.

WHA
TINTH
ELLARE
YOULOO
KINGATYO
UMORONYOU

[Chris_Hickman]

Garth...can you please write that in a larger font next time... I'm having a little trouble readin' it!!

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by ChucktownBlue

That would have been great if A-Rod was in the baseline at the time of attempted tag. Has no one realized that camera angle is not directly over third base? The infield grass is just two feet inside the baseline, A-rod was not even in the actual baseline when the tag was attempted. His glove during the tag barely made the baseline! I'm not a fan of either team, and it's obvious, a fan sees what they want to see.

As any umpire knows, the baseLINE is completely irrelevant, and only confuses the issue. The question is twofold - WHEN does ARod's tag attempt supposedly begin? Is it the moment he starts heading toward Uke (which it seems most of us believe), or is it the moment ARod is starting to reach (which it seems only Ozzy and WitlessUmp believe). The other question is - how far from the line made between Uke and 3rd base, at the moment that tag attempt began, did Uke move. If more than 3 feet, he's out. If not, he's not.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by mbyron

You don't know the rule.

A fielder gets the ball. He reaches for the runner going right by him and misses. A man's arms are about 3 feet long. If the fielder misses the tag, the runner has deviated more than 3 feet from his baseline. The runner is out. QED

If you don't follow this line of reasoning, your fanboy circuits have blocked your logical circuits.

Now this is not true either. I too have an out on this play, but the logic that any runner going around a fielder must have gone 3 feet is false. ARod was not directly between Uke and the base when the tag attempt started - so the length of ARod's arm shouldn't be the measurement that matters.

[SanDiegoSteve]

I only saw the replay a couple of times.

Youkalis went way past 3 feet away from his basepath from the time A-Rod initiated his tag attempt. He was out there on the grass and made a wide turn just to get out there.

And I hate the Yankees and love the Red Sox. The umpires got it right.

[PeteBooth]

IMO, the call of Out /safe is irrlevant. The call belonged to U3 and at the time in his judgement (right or wrong) he ruled Youkillis safe.


Then all the umpires huddled and the call was changed. Why did U3 change the call? - Do not know

IMO, this is similar to CB's call in the Mets / Phillies game. CB made the call PERIOD. He did not huddle with his fellow officials and ask for THEIR JUDGEMENT. He trusted his judgement right or wrong.

This type of "thing" trickles down to the amateur game where for the most part there are only 2 of us.

One of these days, there will be a few controversial calls in a game. Then what! every time the official who made the call has to huddle. Suppose on the next play there was a close call at third. The coaches will come out and ask that U3 "huddle" with his partners to see if any of them had a better angle.

Once you let "pandora out of her box" get ready.

IMO, this situation is not about safe / out but about umpire judgement. Apparently one of the other umpires convinced U3 that HIS judgement was better than U3's

Note: I am not a Red Sox Fan

Pete Booth

[Kaliix]

According to the reports on the game, Carlson (U3) had the Youkilis out initially and Cousins (U2) had him safe. I read one person on this thread, D-Man say he called a friend who said the opposite happened, but I tend to believe the game report.

If there were two calls, then there was a darn good reason for a huddle.

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

IMO, the call of Out /safe is irrlevant. The call belonged to U3 and at the time in his judgement (right or wrong) he ruled Youkillis safe.


Then all the umpires huddled and the call was changed. Why did U3 change the call? - Do not know

IMO, this is similar to CB's call in the Mets / Phillies game. CB made the call PERIOD. He did not huddle with his fellow officials and ask for THEIR JUDGEMENT. He trusted his judgement right or wrong.

This type of "thing" trickles down to the amateur game where for the most part there are only 2 of us.

One of these days, there will be a few controversial calls in a game. Then what! every time the official who made the call has to huddle. Suppose on the next play there was a close call at third. The coaches will come out and ask that U3 "huddle" with his partners to see if any of them had a better angle.

Once you let "pandora out of her box" get ready.

IMO, this situation is not about safe / out but about umpire judgement. Apparently one of the other umpires convinced U3 that HIS judgement was better than U3's

Note: I am not a Red Sox Fan

Pete Booth

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

The coaches will come out and ask that U3 "huddle" with his partners to see if any of them had a better angle.

But they already do come out and ask you to seek help. I see it happen at least a few times each season. If you're confident about your call the correct response is, "It's my call. I don't need help."

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

The only thing that I can say is Yuke was on the grass after passing A-Rod. His deviation at the time of the attempted tag was not more than three feet.

Sure wasn't. But to admit such, several in this thread who shot their mouths off prior to Jim Porter's video (thx Jim) will have to admit they screwed uyp, Chances, none to nil.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Alright, I went back and watched the video that Jim Porter supplied. I reran it over and over on the definitive shot. A-Rod had the ball in the glove, his right hand holding the ball and looking right at Youkilis. Youkilis at that point makes a giant step directly left to avoid a tag. AR then chases him farther left, reaches as far as he can, and Youkilis is even farther out of reach.

Youkilis started his dodge of the tag at least 6 feet in on the dirt, and was on the edge of the grass when he slipped past the tag by at least a foot.

There was a minimum of 6 feet of deviation from the time A-Rod began to attempt a tag and the time the tag was avoided. So, to my convoluted way of thinking, Youkilis went 2 times past the legal limit in avoiding a tag attempt.

And I'm a Red Sox fan, once again, so my opinion is not fanboy related at all, but an honest assessment of the facts.

[canadaump6]

Steven Tyler, please quit harassing Sandiegosteve. You've been doing this for quite a long time now, and I think it is time for you to let bygones be bygones. You two have obviously feuded in the past, and maybe it is time to sort your problems out constructively over email or phone or something.

Steven Tyler, you are a good guy who was one of the few people that treated me decently at ABUA. But I still think that a bit more maturity would help you sort out your conflict with SDS.