Legal Acountability

[PeteBooth]

Tee this is the best I could come up with.

http://www.naso.org/rprt3.htm

[bob jenkins]

If the discussion can be confined to "officiating" lawsuits, this thread can remain open. No more on the merits (or lack thereof) of the McDonald's suit, tobacco, guns, general injury, ...

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by fitump56

Every state is chock full of cases where negligence has been found and umpires have been held responsible.

Please provide a link to at least one of these cases where an umpire was found negligent and held responsible. You don't even have to prove the ridiculous claim that each state is "chock full" of such cases.


Tim.

[Tim C]

Please refer to Pete Booth's link.

Those are the only two sport contest officials legal proceedings that have been entered in the National data base.

Note that in neither was the official(s) included in the final outcome.

If "Fit" does have some examples I really do need access to them since I am on a National Committee dealing with these specific issues.

Regards,

[Dave Hensley]

[QUOTE=PeteBooth]

Hi Garth

Off topic but speaking of Dave Hensely do you know why he has been absent from the discussion Forums?

This is a first for a few things this year meaning

1. No 2007 BRD and
2. This is the first time that Dave didn't post his infamous LL Tournament "cheat sheet"

Hope Dave is OK and it's just a matter that he is busy with family / work

Pete Booth

Hi Pete - I'm alive and kicking, just, as Garth noted, buried with work in the real world. Haven't umpired this year and although I still participate on a couple of mail lists, I've not had much time lately for the Internet boards.

I'm hoping that's not permanent, but the job still has me running full speed just to stay even.

Thanks for thinking of me.

Dave

[BigUmp56]

It's good to hear from you again on OF, Dave.


Tim.

[SAump]

I would like to throw this out there. I hope it meets the criteria for this thread. I don't see much of a difference between this type of accident and a lightning strike injury.

LL softball, R3, F2 retrieves pitch bouncing back from backstop which stops R3 in her tracks. Batter decided it was time to take a step out of batter's box and take a practice swing. The girls like to slap the back of their shoulder with the bat for some odd reason. Happens to whack the catcher in the face, knocks her to the ground and sends the poor girl to the hospital.

Well that is what happened. Tears were flowing on both sides. The girl was ok, maybe a broken jaw and the concussion. I don't know if there was a lawsuit over the medical bills {probably not}. I did wonder if the umpire near home plate could have been held liable for not clearing the batter away from possible action near home plate. That could happen to anyone at the LL level.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by Forest Ump

Frivolous law suits would drop precipitously if this country would adopt a loser pays all court cost.

Only if the losers have sumpin' you can get from them to pay the court costs (which I assume you mean legal too).

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by ctblu40

I'm certainly not a good researcher, in fact, that is one reason I chose to major in math. But....


http://tinyurl.com/3xvxaa

Note that gross negligence is not exempted in any state as are several other delimiters of liability. Gross is not as "gross" a term as you might expect when legally defined.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by Tim C

If "Fit" does have some examples I really do need access to them since I am on a National Committee dealing with these specific issues.

Regards,

Email me.

Your access should come from legal who can filter all cases at each level of jurisdiction, how those cases were or were not decided, etc. Google is a very poor example for this search, ask for Lexis/Nexis access from your counsel.

This is copyrighted material and (deleted), Lexis/Nexis is copyrighted nonetheless.

[MD Longhorn]

There is a current lawsuit underway in Texas from an incident in football 2 years ago where an official (linesman) collided with and hurt a coach who was ON THE FIELD. The entire crew is still dealing with the suit. I don't know huge details, but I do know that "sideline maintenance" is now a point of emphasis in the entire state.

[Tim C]

Fit,

We have two attorneys on the committee.

For the record, following my criteria as listed above there is still no listing of any contest official having been found at fault and been successfully sued.

That is still no reason not to purchase insurance that is available to all officials. You don't want to be the first.

Regards,

[canadaump6]

A few years ago, a pair of umpires allowed the players to continue playing into the sixth inning just for fun, even though the game should have been a mercy rule after the fifth. Somebody got hurt, and the umpires got sued. So yes these types of things do happen on the ball diamond. People do not want to take responsibility for their own actions. I think in this case the parents of the kid that got hurt should be sueing themselves for not pulling him off the field. That would make more sense than sueing the umpires. Of course everyone likes to put their blame on the umpires.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

A few years ago, a pair of umpires allowed the players to continue playing into the sixth inning just for fun, even though the game should have been a mercy rule after the fifth.

This is where the umpires made their mistake. Never, ever, EVER work a game past its actual completion. When the game is over, drop the balls or give them to somebody and then split!

You are liable for anything that happens if you stay and umpire some more. Tell the teams that they are welcome to keep playing until they have to give up the field, but that you are prohibited from continuing due to liability reasons. I always let them know that it is my association's policy and that stops their whiny protests of "come on, it's for the kids," or "what's your hurry, Blue...got a date?" and crap like that.

Once it's a complete game the teams are welcome to stay and "scrimmage." They just have to umpire their own game.

Originally Posted by canadaump6

I think in this case the parents of the kid that got hurt should be sueing themselves for not pulling him off the field. That would make more sense than sueing the umpires. Of course everyone likes to put their blame on the umpires.

Again, this is the umpires' fault for trying to be "nice guys" and doing it "for the kids." The parents were right to sue, as the umpires should not have been there overseeing a game that was already completed.

Same thing goes if you get a forfeit because a team is short of players to start a game. The teams can get together and play, but the umpires have to leave as soon as a forfeit is declared.

[cbfoulds]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

A few years ago, a pair of umpires allowed the players to continue playing into the sixth inning just for fun, even though the game should have been a mercy rule after the fifth. Somebody got hurt, and the umpires got sued. So yes these types of things do happen on the ball diamond. People do not want to take responsibility for their own actions. I think in this case the parents of the kid that got hurt should be sueing themselves for not pulling him off the field. That would make more sense than sueing the umpires. Of course everyone likes to put their blame on the umpires.

In order to take this out of urban legend status, it would be necessary to know at least some of the "who, where, when..." You know any of this info, or is this just something "everybody has heard"?

Secondly, is this another "anybody can sue anybody for anything..." sitch; or was there an actual judgment against the umps?

See, while there is a reason NOT to continue past the end of the actual game, the reason is NOT merely continuing the game producing liability where none existed before [iow: you may be liable if you screw up apart from umpiring the "scrimage", but if you weren't liable in the first place, the "scrimage" factor doesn't make you liable]. If the kid got hurt and there was no umpire negligence... continuing the game ISN'T itself negligent.

In case you are wondering, the reason you should be very reluctant to do these "favors" "for the kids" is that most leagues' insurance won't cover you for any negligence that DOES happen, and it's a maybe at best for the NFHS, ABUA, or whoever's insurance ... most officiating insurance covers you for "games".