Is this legal?

[chsbasebal]

A JV team lines up in a legal formation. Prior to putting his hands under center, but after all players are set, the QB yells to one player to "get off the field - We have too many players" As the player sprints for the sideline, the ball is snapped and obviously the "extra" player turns up the field and they throw him the ball.

(Oh, and the sprint to the sideline was correct motion)

[Theisey]

No, this is NOT legal.
Kill it and assess a UC foul immediately.
It's just another variation of the classic "where's the tee" play. See casebook 9.5.1.D

Tell the coach to drop this play from his playbook!
I for one think a better penalty would be to eject the coach for this.

[SWFLguy]

Flag it--- let the play roll-------
if I'm not mistaken you have illegal procedure as
both players (guy "going out" and QB going under
the snapper)are in motion-----
OK in Canada, but not in US.

[Theisey]

Like I said, see casebook 9.5.1.D.
The foul is for UC and the play is NOT to be allowed to get off. Kill it as soon as you recognize this crap even if the snap does happen.

[bluezebra]

Originally posted by SWFLguy
Flag it--- let the play roll-------
if I'm not mistaken you have illegal procedure as
both players (guy "going out" and QB going under
the snapper)are in motion-----
OK in Canada, but not in US.

By the way, "illegal procedure" is a term used by announcers. It's not in the Rule Book.

Bob ..

[KWH]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bluezebra

[i]
By the way, "illegal procedure" is a term used by announcers. It's not in the Rule Book.

Bob ..

Not so fast there Bob...
We have a signal for "Illegal Procedure" (Signal 19 - Page 88), we have a penalty called "Illegal Procedure" (Penalty 11 - Page 77), and we have some acts that by default are called "Illegal Procedure". Examples would include Rule 7-2-1,2 & 3 as described on Page 47 but more importantly please see the PENALTY section on page 48 where these acts are specifically referered to as "Illegal Procedure" or Illegal Formation...

As for the play in question;
It is an UC charged to the head coach just as it is described in Casebook 9.5.1 Situation D.
It is a dead ball foul, the play should be blown dead prior to the snap, hence the ball should never be allowed to become live...

[sportswriter]

Originally posted by SWFLguy
I'm not mistaken you have illegal procedure as
both players (guy "going out" and QB going under
the snapper)are in motion-----
OK in Canada, but not in US.

Not okay in Canada, either. We have "where's the tee" plays.
I'd let the play roll, and go from there. A kind ref gives 'em 5 yards illegal procedure (deceptive tactics,) and a nasty one gives 'em an objectionable conduct. I prefer the latter, as it's got a dead-ball foul option for application in Canadian, meaning if the thing is incompleted on a forward pass, they'll be 2nd down and 20 after the penalty - and we only gots three downs, eh?

Stuff like this would also likely earn the coach a little discussion from myself at some point.

[JimNayzium]

Did anyone see Kordell Stewart run my version of this play....you guys talked me out of so thoroughly and I was so disappointed to see this on ESPN's plays of the weekk...

KStewart goes with the hard count....no one jumps...as he waltzes to the sideline, definitely causing the defense to think the snap is not imminent...they snap a shotgun snap to bettis who barrels for thirty yards....

NO Flags....are NFL rules different on the wheres the tee.../???

[bluezebra]

NFL players are professionals. They are expected to be alert to anything.

Bob

[Sleeper]

The quarterback can go in motion. Until he opens his mouth, there are no deceptive practices. It is the verbal that uses substitution, equipment, etc. that causes the UC.

[shocker]

Ok, you say that it is deceptive to run this play. So if the QB is in shotgun formation and the snap is a direct snap to the RB, wouldn't you say this is deceptive?? That is legal in HS as far as I know. So what's the difference? I am not saying anyone is wrong here, just trying to figure out what is correct and what is not correct. The defense should know that there is not any extra guys on the field because the white hat didn't throw a flag for 12 in the huddle. Comes down to the fact the defense should know what's going on. Maybe not so true in JV ball as they are just learning, but I really don't know of rule differences in JV and Varsity.

[ABoselli]

In the words of the case book 9.5.1 Situation D -

Football has been and always will be a game of deception and trickery involving multiple shifts, unusual formations and creative plays. However, actions and verbiage designed to confuse the defense into believing there is a problem and a snap isn't imminent is beyond the scope of sportsmanship and is illegal.

There you have it.

[shocker]

Thank you, that pretty much explains it !!!

[devdog69]

Unfortunately, in the real world, it has been my experience that officials are hesitant to put the quabash on these sort of plays. This year, my first full year of varsity football, a coach tells us before the game of such a play they run during a punting situation, and our white hat just says ok. I ask him after the conference, 'isn't that illegal', he says 'maybe, depends on the interpretation'. I can't remember the exact play, but I remember being frustrated that the majority of officials in my area were lax on the rule, choosing to be wishy-washy on their interpretations, which makes it very hard for the few that wish to uphold the integrity of the game.

[ABoselli]

The white hat runs the show, I guess. When I'm wearing it, that crap don't fly.