Legal Acountability

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by SAump

I have always heard this statement when it came to 1) checking equipment prior to the game, 2) asking coaches about their players "wearing proper equipment" at the plate meeting, or 3) keeping players in the dugout or batting circle. I agree these matters and others like them are very important for everyone's "safety" and general well being.

The fear of losing money appears to provide the necessary motivation to perform menial tasks. Money surpasses safety and many other intrinsic social values. For example, should a kid get hurt, why would someone point the finger at the umpire? Do they point the finger at parents of the child, or the child responsible for the injury, or that child's coach? How can leagues or their umpires be held accountable in a court of law?

Laws come about b/c state courts uphold them. State courts crewate trial history or case law. Every state is chock full of cases where negligence has been found and umpires have been held responsible. Our org has complete coverage including legal expenses to defend us (thanks IU!). Even though it comes out of the pocket of our org owner.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

Unfortunately, we live in a very litigious society. Why is McDonalds responsible for someone putting a cup of coffee between their legs and getting burned when that coffee spills?

The court ruled the coffee was served at a scalding temp, approximately 140 degrees or more. Apples and oranges.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Dave Hensley, I believe it was, a few years back did an exhaustive search nationally for any case in which the final outcome included a sporting official being held liable for an injury sustained during a sporting event.

Despite all the hand-wringing, dire-warnings and old umpire's tales, he could find none.

Garthie, tell him to call me, I know of at least two and I bet I can find several more.

[briancurtin]

Originally Posted by Forest Ump

I'll write this again for those of you that are hard of reading. The women received third degree burns and required skin graphs.

skin grafts
just wanted to put that out there

[cbfoulds]

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

"lost," "settled" - I paid money to a plantiff --I f****ing lost, period. Other than legal jargon, I don't see the damn difference. And neither will my loan officer.

One case that comes to mind (and I don't know where it happened) to which I am willing to admit "urban legend" --

Two batters (on-deck) between innings, one takes a practice swing, not realizing where the other was standing, hit him. Parents sue umpires because they are responsible for safety on the field. If you can find info, please let me know what you find.

YOU may not see the difference, but there is one.

A settlement is, usually, an economic decision made by an insurance company - the cost of trying the case [factoring in that MAYBE you lose] is greater than the cost of settlement. A verdict or judgment is a judicial determination that [in the circumstances being discussed here] someone [an umpire] failed to exercise "due care" where (s)he had a legal duty to do so.

Your one case, since we have no idea when, where, or to whom it happened, obviously cannot be checked out; however, I am aware of one such case with similar facts from about 5 to 7 years ago: there was no finding of liability [or settlement for that matter] against the umpires [in the case I have heard of] - the plaintiff was found to be contributorily negligent in a state where [unlike the infamous McD's coffee case] contributory negligence is an absolute bar to recovery. In such places [I live in one] the McD's plaintiff would get nothing, as she was found to be 20% negligent.

[PeteBooth]

How can leagues or their umpires be held accountable in a court of law?

[/QUOTE]

Let's take a simple example: Here in NY we have a HS Lightening rule that says we have to wait 30 minutes once we see lightening (anywhere). Every time we see lightening the 30 minutes starts over.

The coach comes up to you after 15 minutes and says "Common Blue" the lightening is "way over yonder" not even close to us - let's get going I already have 2 make-up games this week alone.

You re-start the game (after waiting only 15 minutes) and GOD forbid a kid is struck by lightening and gets seriously injured.

I am not an attorney or a judge, but if the case did go to trial, you bet the attorney for the plaintiff is going to go over the Rule-book with a "fine" tooth comb and you will be "griiled" on the witness stand.

Now as to why there isn't "evidence" of many lawsuits involving officials is probably because most cases have either been settled or are still years away "on the docket" hence there is no public record. Unless you personally know of the lawsuit it's very difficult to find out exactly how many officials are involved with lawsuits.

IMO, it's Gross Negligence that can get you in trouble. Also, in the scheme of things it takes all of maybe 5 minutes to check the equipment and about 15 seconds to ask the coaches "Teams properly equipped"

Pete Booth

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

IMO, it's Gross Negligence that can get you in trouble. Also, in the scheme of things it takes all of maybe 5 minutes to check the equipment and about 15 seconds to ask the coaches "Teams properly equipped"

I agree - it's not worth taking the risk and possibly losing my house. God forbid a child gets injured . . . but I want to do everything possible to protect my liability if the unthinkable happens.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by GarthB

Dave Hensley, I believe it was, a few years back did an exhaustive search nationally for any case in which the final outcome included a sporting official being held liable for an injury sustained during a sporting event.

Hi Garth

Off topic but speaking of Dave Hensely do you know why he has been absent from the discussion Forums?

This is a first for a few things this year meaning

1. No 2007 BRD and
2. This is the first time that Dave didn't post his infamous LL Tournament "cheat sheet"

Hope Dave is OK and it's just a matter that he is busy with family / work

Pete Booth

[GarthB]

[QUOTE=PeteBooth]

Hi Garth

Off topic but speaking of Dave Hensely do you know why he has been absent from the discussion Forums?

This is a first for a few things this year meaning

1. No 2007 BRD and
2. This is the first time that Dave didn't post his infamous LL Tournament "cheat sheet"

Hope Dave is OK and it's just a matter that he is busy with family / work

Pete Booth

The last I heard, due to work and related travel, Dave took the year off.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by briancurtin

skin grafts
just wanted to put that out there

I was going to do it myself, but didn't want to be accused of being the grammar police again.

[lawump]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

I agree - it's not worth taking the risk and possibly losing my house. God forbid a child gets injured . . . but I want to do everything possible to protect my liability if the unthinkable happens.

Buy liability insurance from NASO or ABUA or your local association (if they offer it) or wherever.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I was going to do it myself, but didn't want to be accused of being the grammar police again.

No worries. See your post in Sportsmanship thread.

[CO ump]

Originally Posted by briancurtin

skin grafts
just wanted to put that out there

Personal responsibility
Common Sense

Just wanted to put that out there

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by CO ump

Personal responsibility
Common Sense

Just wanted to put that out there

Of course there is. It is common knowledge that I expect to have 3rd degree burns for spilling a beverage on my hands or in my lap.

I just wanted to put that out there.

Peace

[Tim C]

"I know of at least two and I bet I can find several more."

Fit, you could really help out the group if you would list a url or a link to these situations.

Those of us that work on a national level would love to see rulings that slip through our research.

Our criteria that we review is:

A sports contest official must be involved,

The case must find the official at fault,

There must be a legal decision rendered.

We know of several where officials have been named in the orginal documents (Wichita State college baseball) but what we are looking for is a contest official actually winding up being on the losing end of a ddecision.

I admit freely that there have been some rulings that have "nearly" placed officials in jeopardy (example: A slow pitch plate umpire was found negligent because he did not offer HIS mask to a catcher who was not wearing one . . . when the catcher was injured the PU "should have" offered his mask for the catcher to use -- that is what the final determination of the court decided). This case was actually appealed and an out-of-court settlement was reached.

I also believe there have been a couple of lightning related cases.

Message Boards can be usefull and this is one of those times.

Regards,