It's that time of year again - LLWS

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

How did this guy get a final.
Pete Booth

As we have discovered, year after year, ability is a plus, but not a requirement.

It's too bad if it's like you say. During the last two years the LLWS showed some impressive improvement over the past.

[ManInBlue]

I've been more concerned with the height of his zone than I have the width. He's called several pitches up in the zone that I thought were too high. I have seen several breaking balls that just touched any resemblence of a zone and had F2 reaching outside to catch that he called for a strike - those I had a problem with. When you go big, the zone still has to be hittable - those pitches were not.

From my experience with rec league - he probably doesn't get much chirping during the season. The coaches I have run into are glad to see strikes called. It's the clueless parents that yell "that was outside" but then yell "Good pitch, Johnny" when their kid throws it in the same spot.

[TussAgee11]

Anyone check out the LF umpire in the Northeast regional? Sweet Santa Claus beard!

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

I've been more concerned with the height of his zone than I have the width. He's called several pitches up in the zone that I thought were too high. I have seen several breaking balls that just touched any resemblence of a zone and had F2 reaching outside to catch that he called for a strike - those I had a problem with. When you go big, the zone still has to be hittable - those pitches were not.

From my experience with rec league - he probably doesn't get much chirping during the season. The coaches I have run into are glad to see strikes called. It's the clueless parents that yell "that was outside" but then yell "Good pitch, Johnny" when their kid throws it in the same spot.

He's called several pitches up in the zone that I thought were too high.
The LL strike zone is armpits to the top of the knees so you're going to see higher pitches called strikes.


I have seen several breaking balls that just touched any resemblence of a zone and had F2 reaching outside to catch that he called for a strike

Are you sure you typed what you meant? It touched the zone and you think it wasn't hittable and not a strike?

LL catchers tend to set up way too deep which makes it look worse if you're looking at where he caught it.

[umpduck11]

My personal favorite is the big "softball" strike mechanic.

[ManInBlue]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

He's called several pitches up in the zone that I thought were too high.
The LL strike zone is armpits to the top of the knees so you're going to see higher pitches called strikes.


I have seen several breaking balls that just touched any resemblence of a zone and had F2 reaching outside to catch that he called for a strike

Are you sure you typed what you meant? It touched the zone and you think it wasn't hittable and not a strike?

LL catchers tend to set up way too deep which makes it look worse if you're looking at where he caught it.

No that was not exactly what I meant. It was to be taken in context with the wide zone comment. The breaking balls were outside and tailed farther outside -didn't appear hittable.

Armpits I call in "little boy ball" - 9-10 year olds - You have to to get strikes called and "make them swing the bat." With 12 year olds that have made it through states, they can pitch better than most others, I don't think armpits is needed. High strikes (middle to top of the letters) I can agree with. I called games in the Dizzie Dean World Series and I did not give them the arm pit strike - they don't need it once they get to this level of play. As a matter of fact, I probably wouldn't give a 12 year old that strike anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not insulting LL in anyway. This is strickly a comment based on one game and the PU in that game. His timing was very good, he had good position, his strike mechanic I didn't like and I thought his zone was too big. I have not insulted him or anyone else. I don't think this thread was even intended to insult LL.

About the mask thing - I was hoping someone could tell me why he did that. I saw it, but had stepped away from the TV, so I didn't know if something happened to his bucket or if he was just trying out a mask.

[Jim Porter]

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

I've been more concerned with the height of his zone than I have the width. He's called several pitches up in the zone that I thought were too high.

The top of the Little League strike zone is at the armpit.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by Jim Porter

The top of the Little League strike zone is at the armpit.

Even so, Jim, if an umpire calls it that high he's doing the game a disservice.


Tim.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Even so, Jim, if an umpire calls it that high he's doing the game a disservice.


Tim.

Bullsh!t. It is what it is. I don't throw away strikes at any level anymore.

I'll be visiting Williamsport during the LLWS. Having grown up an hour from there, I've never been to Williamsport, but this year a good friend is working the LLWS. If he's working the game you're watching, you won't be making fun of him. He works college and HS baseball along with adult ball and LL.

I just finished working my first LL Regional (Seniors, Central Region) and I had a great time. I was DQed from the finals because my state was still alive, but worked a plate on a semifinal game. Plenty of good umpires there.

[charliej47]

I watched the Ohio and Indiana game and during the rundown between 1st and 2nd there was a train wreck but the kid with the ball never touched the runner. They collided and the F3 held on to the ball in his glove, but he never touches the runner. ESPN showed the collision from two angles and it was a clear miss and the BU calls him out. Everyone gets up and runs off the field. The PU points to the plate as the lead runner crosses it and yells count the run.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Bullsh!t. It is what it is. I don't throw away strikes at any level anymore.

I'll be visiting Williamsport during the LLWS. Having grown up an hour from there, I've never been to Williamsport, but this year a good friend is working the LLWS. If he's working the game you're watching, you won't be making fun of him. He works college and HS baseball along with adult ball and LL.

I just finished working my first LL Regional (Seniors, Central Region) and I had a great time. I was DQed from the finals because my state was still alive, but worked a plate on a semifinal game. Plenty of good umpires there.

Sorry to have upset you, Rich, but I don't know any decent umpire that calls a strike at the armpits. That includes the LLWS. If you want to define bull$hit, start with the LL definition of the strike zone.



Tim.

[lawump]

This year's LLWS will be very, very interesting for me. We had a guy join our association (High school, American Legion, AAU...in otherwords a "big boy" association) five years ago or so. His only experience at that time was pretty much LL. He joined us with many of the "LL problems" we talk about on this board.

We trained him and worked with him and he has become a very, very good high school umpire, with a very good zone, good timing, good mechanics, etc. He has worked deep into the state HS playoffs.

Anyways, this umpire has never stopped working LL...despite working a full HS schedule. This year he was picked for the LLWS in Williamsport. I've teased him a little (not about being selected...but about using "good" mechanics while there!).

So, I hope he goes there and does a great job. Frankly, without even knowing anything about the other umpires selected to go to Williamsport...I am hoping he goes and stands out from the crowd (for all the right reasons!). And frankly, I think he will! I can't wait to watch him on a plate game. This ought to be fun.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Sorry to have upset you, Rich, but I don't know any decent umpire that calls a strike at the armpits. That includes the LLWS. If you want to define bull$hit, start with the LL definition of the strike zone.



Tim.

You haven't worked a little boy game in a while, then. Without calling from the armpits to the knees the strike zone would be almost nonexistent.

BTW, the pro rulebook USED to define a strike in exactly this way.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Sorry to have upset you, Rich, but I don't know any decent umpire that calls a strike at the armpits. That includes the LLWS. If you want to define bull$hit, start with the LL definition of the strike zone.



Tim.

It gets called that way around here.

The zone would be way too small if you didn't - not very many kid pitchers could hit it.

The batters swing at the high pitfch anyway so you might as well call it a strike.

[PeteBooth]

Jim I did not watch all the Regional finals. I saw 3 Regional finals.

New Mexico / Texas; Indiana / Ohio; and last night Arizona / Cal

The PU's zone in the aforementioned games was BIG. The biggest was in the Arizona / Cal game where the PU was calling pitches approx 8 -12 inches outisde a strike. The ESPN commentators had a tough time in saying "that was borderline" At least from my viewpoint the zone was a large as I have seen in quite some time.

Perhaps with LL instituting a Pitch count rule, the PU's at the Regionals were instructed to be as LIBERAL as possible.

We will have to wait and see how the zone looks come the LLWS but compared to the last year, the zone has indeed been very very liberal and as mentioned perhaps the new pitch count rule has something to do with it.

Pete Booth