R3 grabs foul ball

[bossman72]

i'm on 3rd base in a 4 man crew in a legion game. R3 takes his lead in foul. Batter hits a chopper down the line about 6 ft (clearly) in foul territory but pretty much right at R3. R3 reaches out with his right arm (away from the foul line) and actually catches the ball.

PU calls foul ball right away and i casually put my hands up and nod to "sell" the call since everyone was caught a little off guard by it. The ball didn't really have any chance of becoming fair. Nobody said a word about it.


I'm 99% certain that we made the correct call, but i'd like some reassurance from you guys

Thanks

[ManInBlue]

You got it right. R3 was in foul territory, so no problem. Runner is out when he is hit by a fair batted ball.

[bossman72]

Yeah, i was hesitant because R3 intentionally grabbed it, which was my major malfunction about the play.

[mbyron]

Given that R3 is in foul territory, the more pressing question is whether F5 had a play on the ball to make an out. If it's a bounding ball, then clearly there's no interference, but on a looping line drive there's a strong presumption in favor of interference if F5 had any reasonable chance of recording an out.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by bossman72

i'm on 3rd base in a 4 man crew in a legion game. R3 takes his lead in foul. Batter hits a chopper down the line about 6 ft (clearly) in foul territory but pretty much right at R3. R3 reaches out with his right arm (away from the foul line) and actually catches the ball.

PU calls foul ball right away and i casually put my hands up and nod to "sell" the call since everyone was caught a little off guard by it. The ball didn't really have any chance of becoming fair. Nobody said a word about it.


I'm 99% certain that we made the correct call, but i'd like some reassurance from you guys

Thanks

If the ball had not crossed 3B, or come to a stop, then you have R interfering. Who knows, could hit a rock and rebound fair. This is a deliberate act. If the HC of the other team had come out on you with this very argument, how would you defend it? Crystal balls probably won't be persuasive.

OTOH, the traditional call here is "Foul" so you are stuck in the middle, aren't you?

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by fitump56

If the ball had not crossed 3B, or come to a stop, then you have R interfering. Who knows, could hit a rock and rebound fair. This is a deliberate act. If the HC of the other team had come out on you with this very argument, how would you defend it? Crystal balls probably won't be persuasive.

The OP is not interference. As another poster said, this is a ball bounding over foul territory, so F5 is not able to catch it in flight to record an out.

My defense for this is simple, the ball had no chance of becoming fair, that's why I ruled it foul. We see base coaches handle these types of bounding balls all the time, why is it different for runners?

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by ctblu40

The OP is not interference. As another poster said, this is a ball bounding over foul territory, so F5 is not able to catch it in flight to record an out.

My defense for this is simple, the ball had no chance of becoming fair, that's why I ruled it foul. We see base coaches handle these types of bounding balls all the time, why is it different for runners?

If the ball had not crossed 3B, or come to a stop, then you have R interfering. Who knows, could hit a rock and rebound fair. This is a deliberate act. If the HC of the other team had come out on you with this very argument, how would you defend it? Crystal balls probably won't be persuasive.

Coaches if in their box are often further up the line.

As I said, this is a technical INT but nonetheless INT regardless of C or R. I have had coaches come out on me for this, one moron in particular. They never do it twice.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by fitump56

If the ball had not crossed 3B, or come to a stop, then you have R interfering. Who knows, could hit a rock and rebound fair. This is a deliberate act. If the HC of the other team had come out on you with this very argument, how would you defend it? Crystal balls probably won't be persuasive.

Coaches if in their box are often further up the line.

As I said, this is a technical INT but nonetheless INT regardless of C or R. I have had coaches come out on me for this, one moron in particular. They never do it twice.

Look at the official field diagrams in any rule book and you will notice (or should notice) that an officially drawn coach's box is BEFORE the bases so your notion that a coach in his box is OK because he's farther back is based on a lack of knowledge.

You might also want to go watch a few games and keep track of 1) where coaches station themselves 2) Where runners station themselves and 3) how many times a coach is called for interference on a foul ball.

Everyone in the park (except you) knows it's a foul ball. No one is going to (female dog) unless, of course, you call the runner out.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Look at the official field diagrams in any rule book and you will notice (or should notice) that an officially drawn coach's box is BEFORE the bases so your notion that a coach in his box is OK because he's farther back is based on a lack of knowledge.

Considering I have overseen the building of two or three dozen ballfields, I think not. Coaches boxes are drawn differently for each age group, MOF. Rs typically move further down the line than a C. Goodbye.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by fitump56

If the ball had not crossed 3B, or come to a stop, then you have R interfering. Who knows, could hit a rock and rebound fair. This is a deliberate act. If the HC of the other team had come out on you with this very argument, how would you defend it? Crystal balls probably won't be persuasive.

OTOH, the traditional call here is "Foul" so you are stuck in the middle, aren't you?

This is not correct. A ball that contacts a player in foul ground is a foul ball. The interference rule specifically states a FAIR batted ball. Guess what ... even if you have intent here, you don't have an out. There's no verbiage in the rule about interference that mentions a ball over foul ground that MIGHT become fair. We don't deal in could'ves here.

The ball becomes foul the second it touches the runner (intent or not), and the interference rule doesn't allow us to call him out for intentionally contacting a foul ball (unless it could have been caught, obviously).

[UmpLarryJohnson]

WOW smfitty, what WILL you come up with next?? This is a FOUL ball all the way -- you really thinka coach would come out and argue thatt a playerr touching a 6foot-bounding foul ball is INTERFERANCE? and that any blue worth a tinkersdarn would LISTEN to such?

you ARE just argueing for the heckuvit. Now go answer your ownposts 6 more times

[soundedlikeastrike]

Sounds like you got away with it. But I'd a added to the runner "don't do that".

You say the ball was 6' foul, well what about 6" foul, how about a bunt rolling up the line just 1" into foul ground?

This is a batted ball, until it passes 3rd, "then" it's either fair or foul not an instant before. Would you call "foul ball" on first contact with foul ground, no.
You wait until it passes the bag.

The ball is foul if "it" contacts something or someone while over foul ground.
Not foul when it's "touched" by an offensive player.

The difference when a coach does it is the proximity to the bag, coaches are usually even or beyond the bag/s. Runners are usually several feet down the line. Squelch this action right away.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

Sounds like you got away with it. But I'd a added to the runner "don't do that".

Why ... a warning like that should be accompanied by a penalty if someone does it again. What penalty are you going to apply (and how will you justify it) if he does do it again? Don't warn for stuff that's not illegal just because you don't like it.

You say the ball was 6' foul, well what about 6" foul, how about a bunt rolling up the line just 1" into foul ground?

Good point, or not. What about a bunt rolling just 1 inch foul. Say he picks this one up. Show me the rule that justifies you penalizing that. You won't find it - it's not illegal.

The ball is foul if "it" contacts something or someone while over foul ground.
Not foul when it's "touched" by an offensive player.

Having trouble understanding what you mean here. It is too foul when it's touched by an offensive player. That is merely a subset of the possibilities in your first sentence.

The difference when a coach does it is the proximity to the bag, coaches are usually even or beyond the bag/s. Runners are usually several feet down the line. Squelch this action right away.

Again ... why, and by what rule?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Good point, or not. What about a bunt rolling just 1 inch foul. Say he picks this one up. Show me the rule that justifies you penalizing that. You won't find it - it's not illegal.

7.09 (b): A runner is out when -- He intentionally deflects the course of a foul ball in any manner.

Note that MLBUM clarifies:

6.18 INTENTIONALLY DEFLECTING COURSE OF FOUL BALL
Official Baseball Rule 7.09(b) provides that the batter or runner is out for interference if he
intentionally "deflects the course of a foul ball in any manner." While picking up a foul ball or
otherwise touching it may not, by such act itself, actually deflect the course of the ball, an umpire
may judge such act as deflecting the course of the ball if, in the umpire's judgment, the ball
might have become a fair ball had it not been touched.
It would be better if no member of the offensive team picked up or otherwise touched a foul ball.
There is no objection to a coach returning a foul ball to the umpire after it has passed first or
third base, but the coach should not touch a ball that possibly may go fair.

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Why ... a warning like that should be accompanied by a penalty if someone does it again. What penalty are you going to apply (and how will you justify it) if he does do it again? Don't warn for stuff that's not illegal just because you don't like it.

Because MLBUM says
"It would be better if no member of the offensive team picked up or otherwise touched a foul ball."

The umpire may have judged in this case 'no harm no foul' but the next time may be a different judgement.
There is absolutely no harm in a little preventive umping.