I guess we will all be umpiring softball next year

[BigUmp56]

This will be only a little difficult to teach at first. I believe we'll have to go over and over what constitutes a train wreck when an errant throw pulls a fielder into a runners basepath.


Tim.

[ozzy6900]

As far as I am concerned, if the FED moves this way it will be a breath of fresh air!

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

This will be only a little difficult to teach at first. I believe we'll have to go over and over what constitutes a train wreck when an errant throw pulls a fielder into a runners basepath.


Tim.

With this new rule, won't "train wrecks" be eliminated?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

With this new rule, won't "train wrecks" be eliminated?

No. (Well, not likely -- I haven't seen the final rule.) A throw that takes a fielder into the path of a runner will still be a train wreck.

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

No. (Well, not likely -- I haven't seen the final rule.) A throw that takes a fielder into the path of a runner will still be a train wreck.

The current softball FED rule considers denying a base without possession of the ball as obstruction, so my comments are assuming (yes, I know, assume) that this will be the model for FED baseball as well.

In FED softball, their are no more train wrecks. You either have:
a) Fielder has ball, runner contacts fielder for a tag out, interference, and/or malicious contact.
b) Fielder does not have ball, runner contacts fielder (unintenionally), obstruction on the fielder.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

The current softball FED rule considers denying a base without possession of the ball as obstruction, so my comments are assuming (yes, I know, assume) that this will be the model for FED baseball as well.

The model is the NCAA (baseball) obstruction rule.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

The current softball FED rule considers denying a base without possession of the ball as obstruction, so my comments are assuming (yes, I know, assume) that this will be the model for FED baseball as well.

In FED softball, their are no more train wrecks. You either have:
a) Fielder has ball, runner contacts fielder for a tag out, interference, and/or malicious contact.
b) Fielder does not have ball, runner contacts fielder (unintenionally), obstruction on the fielder.

What happens when the fielder loses control of the ball during the tag?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

What happens when the fielder loses control of the ball during the tag?

Given ordinary gravity, it falls to the ground.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by TwoBits
The current softball FED rule considers denying a base without possession of the ball as obstruction, so my comments are assuming (yes, I know, assume) that this will be the model for FED baseball as well.

In FED softball, their are no more train wrecks. You either have:
a) Fielder has ball, runner contacts fielder for a tag out, interference, and/or malicious contact.
b) Fielder does not have ball, runner contacts fielder (unintenionally), obstruction on the fielder.

Originally Posted by Eastshire

What happens when the fielder loses control of the ball during the tag?

What if? Excellent question. What will be the standard for this discussion because no matter what you call, it isn't covered in the above.

I Googled around for discussions about these plays which fall between the cracks and for plays where it is impossible to tell if a person is safe or out. The one I found that I liked the most, and intend to adopt, is the concept of rewarding the better play.

In this case, the better play is R advancing since we have F with an error. Since the rule only has two options, and I now have decided to make the interp favor R, then we have OBS.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by fitump56

What if? Excellent question. What will be the standard for this discussion because no matter what you call, it isn't covered in the above.

I Googled around for discussions about these plays which fall between the cracks and for plays where it is impossible to tell if a person is safe or out. The one I found that I liked the most, and intend to adopt, is the concept of rewarding the better play.

In this case, the better play is R advancing since we have F with an error. Since the rule only has two options, and I now have decided to make the interp favor R, then we have OBS.

So the consensus is that a fielder who loses control of the ball during a tag will be guilty of obstruction?

That seems reasonable on a play where the runner is advancing (1 base award will put him where he would have been under the old rule) but unfair where the runner is returning (pick off at 2nd, F6 loses the ball on the tag, runner gets 3rd).

[UmpLarryJohnson]

Originally Posted by fitump56

In this case, the better play is R advancing since we have F with an error. Since the rule only has two options, and I now have decided to make the interp favor R, then we have OBS.

well since as mr Fronhieser has said (if both players are DOING what they should be DOING) a throw Into a RUNNERS path is NOT OBSTRUCTION in NCAA for example- how can you rule OBSTRUCTION here??

there are STILL train wrecks with THIS rule. Thats MY opinion

[Rich]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

The current softball FED rule considers denying a base without possession of the ball as obstruction, so my comments are assuming (yes, I know, assume) that this will be the model for FED baseball as well.

In FED softball, their are no more train wrecks. You either have:
a) Fielder has ball, runner contacts fielder for a tag out, interference, and/or malicious contact.
b) Fielder does not have ball, runner contacts fielder (unintenionally), obstruction on the fielder.

A throw that takes the fielder into the runner is NOT obstruction in NCAA BASEBALL or LL BASEBALL. Why would softball ever be considered a model for baseball - they are two very different sports.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Why would softball ever be considered a model for baseball - they are two very different sports.

Sports?

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

A throw that takes the fielder into the runner is NOT obstruction in NCAA BASEBALL or LL BASEBALL. Why would softball ever be considered a model for baseball - they are two very different sports.

Very aware they are two different sports, but it seems as if FED is trying to bring them a little closer together. For example, I figured this new rule would be enforced similar to FED softball. Another example: FED softball is allowing steel cleats next year just as baseball has for years.

But if this new rule is going to be interpretted as the NCAA rule is, then I really should rescind the title of this thread.

[JRutledge]

I think the only time the NF tries to mirror other sports are in safety concerns. This is an NCAA rule or interpretation coming down to the NF. This has nothing to do with softball other than the fact that both sports are hybrids of each other.

Peace