Lessons Learned About Rats

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Way over the top on that one Garth.

I have witnessed subtle forms of child abuse by managers and coaches during youth ball games. It rears its ugly head sometimes when the supposed grown-ups misuse and abuse their authority.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I have witnessed subtle forms of child abuse by managers and coaches during youth ball games. It rears its ugly head sometimes when the supposed grown-ups misuse and abuse their authority.

In horror I watched a 14 year old starting pitcher begin to cry and grimmace in pain during the 6th inning of a slugfest. My guess is that he'd already thrown 100 pitches or more during the game. His rat for a coach asked for time and only came out as far as the foul line and began to taunt his own pitcher. The converstation went something like this.


"What's the matter, does your arm hurt?"

"Yes."

"Do you want to come out of the game?"

"Yes."

"Well it ain't happening, so suck it up and strike somebody out!"


There are no words to describe how I felt as a parent of players the same age.


Tim.

[DG]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

In horror I watched a 14 year old starting pitcher begin to cry and grimmace in pain during the 6th inning of a slugfest. My guess is that he'd already thrown 100 pitches or more during the game. His rat for a coach asked for time and only came out as far as the foul line and began to taunt his own pitcher. The converstation went something like this.


"What's the matter, does your arm hurt?"

"Yes."

"Do you want to come out of the game?"

"Yes."

"Well it ain't happening, so suck it up and strike somebody out!"

It has never happened to me but I would call time, have a discussion with the HC about the verbal exchange I just heard, wait for him to say something personal or profane to me and then I would toss his sorry 8ss. I would then sleep very well that night.

The ejection report would be accurate, coach asked, pitcher said, coach responded, I called him over for discussion and he said something personal/profane to me so I tossed him. Yes, I baited him. Yes, I will do it again.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by DG

It has never happened to me but I would call time, have a discussion with the HC about the verbal exchange I just heard, wait for him to say something personal or profane to me and then I would toss his sorry 8ss. I would then sleep very well that night.

The ejection report would be accurate, coach asked, pitcher said, coach responded, I called him over for discussion and he said something personal/profane to me so I tossed him. Yes, I baited him. Yes, I will do it again.

I was going to suggest finding a way to toss the pitcher. He could use the down time for the rest of the game and the suspension period.

[UmpJM]

Steve,

The degree of rancor of which you speak is well-earned by the coaching community at large. In general, the majority of coaches are rats, and they do cheat and lie to achieve their objective, which only concerns winning the game. They abuse game officials constantly, but I guess you think that it's ok to do this.

My experience is somewhat different than yours.

While there are most certainly "Rat Coaches" who will sacrifice their dignity, self-respect, integrity, common decency, and anything else they think necessary for the sole purpose of winning the game at any cost, in my experience those types of coaches are in the minority rather than the majority.

They are certainly more memorable than coaches who choose to conduct themselves otherwise.

And umpires most assuredly are the guardians of the game. We are the only impartial participants, and are necessary to the integrity of the sport.

I find myself pretty much in agreement with these statements.

Too many people have a fundamental misunderstanding of the process of human perception and the degree to which impartiality contributes to the relative accuracy of that process.

Having a competent and impartial arbiter participating in the game improves the overall quality of the game for all who participate or even observe.

Without us, games would be chaos and meaningless wastes of time.

When I was a child, I would often play "pick-up" games with whatever kids in the neighborhood I could find. The games would often end chaotically, most commonly over an irredeemable dispute over whether a player was out or safe or some such thing.

But, in retrospect, I wouldn't say they were "meaningless wastes of time".

JMO.

JM

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by CoachJM

My experience is somewhat different than yours.

Yes, it is. And when you've umpired as many games as I have, which would be quite a feat in itself, then perhaps you would have a much different perspective. You will have worked many seasons of baseball, and dealt with every kind of manager, coach, and player imaginable, and will have noted a recurring theme concerning the behavior of the majority. It's not a small few who are rats, it's a small few who are not.

Originally Posted by UmpireJM

When I was a child, I would often play "pick-up" games with whatever kids in the neighborhood I could find. The games would often end chaotically, most commonly over an irredeemable dispute over whether a player was out or safe or some such thing.

But, in retrospect, I wouldn't say they were "meaningless wastes of time".

But they were what they were. Pick-up games. I played in pick-up games nearly every weekend until I stopped playing ball (and started umpiring instead). That is what MLB games would become without umpires, pick-up games. Nothing wrong with pick-up games. It would probably be a hoot for awhile to watch the meltdown, but it wouldn't count for much of anything without the order and realism that having an arbiter provides.

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

In horror I watched a 14 year old starting pitcher begin to cry and grimmace in pain during the 6th inning of a slugfest. My guess is that he'd already thrown 100 pitches or more during the game. His rat for a coach asked for time and only came out as far as the foul line and began to taunt his own pitcher. The converstation went something like this.


"What's the matter, does your arm hurt?"

"Yes."

"Do you want to come out of the game?"

"Yes."

"Well it ain't happening, so suck it up and strike somebody out!"


There are no words to describe how I felt as a parent of players the same age.


Tim.

In a 14 year old game, me and that coach would have had a private conversation regarding this pitcher (assuming I feel that he is risking injury on the mound). I'm probably in the minority here, which I understand. As an umpire, but more importantly as an adult, I'm interjecting myself into this one. If I was that kid's parent, I'm pulling my kid off the field that instant. Most parents would. Now I'm assuming the pitcher's parent did not hear this, and perhaps I'm the only other adult that did. What happens if this kid gets hurt? Its certainly on the Coach, but I would feel guilty as well for putting my job in front of the wellbeing of a kid.

Chances are this coach would go ballistic on me during our private conversation, I'd toss him, and then the assistant, who always in these sorts of situations realizes the manager is a maniac, will take the kid out and we will go on. UIC will get a report, I may get a "don't do that again from him", but it will pass on to the league president, and that coach wouldn't be coaching again. And a kid may have avoided serious injury.

It goes without saying that at JV, V, Legion, etc. level I would never do this, but then again, I don't think that it would ever happen at any other level than the one Tim described.

Just my two cents. Let the flaming of me begin.

[spokanelurker]

I’m startled by the degree of rancor expressed toward coaches on this site. Do the most critical of you truly see yourselves as guardians of the game, and coaches as its enemies? How do you justify all the name-calling (rats, cheaters, liars, child abusers, etc.) in the same posts where you paint yourselves as victims of similar offenses?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by spokanelurker

I’m startled by the degree of rancor expressed toward coaches on this site. Do the most critical of you truly see yourselves as guardians of the game, and coaches as its enemies? How do you justify all the name-calling (rats, cheaters, liars, child abusers, etc.) in the same posts where you paint yourselves as victims of similar offenses?

The degree of rancor of which you speak is well-earned by the coaching community at large. In general, the majority of coaches are rats, and they do cheat and lie to achieve their objective, which only concerns winning the game. They abuse game officials constantly, but I guess you think that it's ok to do this. And umpires most assuredly are the guardians of the game. We are the only impartial participants, and are necessary to the integrity of the sport. Without us, games would be chaos and meaningless wastes of time.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Without us, games would be chaos and meaningless wastes of time.

Does that include the sandlot games everyone claims to remember with fondness? Those games had neither a coach nor an umpire yet I don't recall anyone claiming they were meaningless wastes of time.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Does that include the sandlot games everyone claims to remember with fondness? Those games had neither a coach nor an umpire yet I don't recall anyone claiming they were meaningless wastes of time.

No. Umpires are only needed once adult coaches get involved.

[Mr Ray]

[QUOTE=spokanelurker]I’m startled by the degree of rancor expressed toward coaches on this site. Do the most critical of you truly see yourselves as guardians of the game, and coaches as its enemies? How do you justify all the name-calling (rats, cheaters, liars, child abusers, etc.) in the same posts where you paint yourselves as victims of similar offenses?[/QUOTE

If you have been around long enough you should have noticed how the umps on this forum are nasty to ANYONE that comes here even their own kind. Just follow how this thread has devolved into a personal urinating match over nothing. I stopped posting here b/c of it. So now I suppose I'll get the inevitable flames. But before you do that remember: if the shoe fits.......

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by spokanelurker

I’m startled by the degree of rancor expressed toward coaches on this site. Do the most critical of you truly see yourselves as guardians of the game, and coaches as its enemies? How do you justify all the name-calling (rats, cheaters, liars, child abusers, etc.) in the same posts where you paint yourselves as victims of similar offenses?

Rancor? Have you been around this board long enough to discern the emotional states of the various posters?

Umpires call coaches rats for a reason. Naturally, it's annoying when a coach comes to an official's board and complains that an official's call "cost him the game." Aside from being total sh!te, he's begging us to throw the official under the bus, based only on his biased account. What would one expect there, open arms?

Anyone who fails to understand how coaches "work" officials is either naive, ignorant, or insensible.

[spokanelurker]

Long-time coach, and proud of it. Now merely an observer, and friend of the game. Byron, San Diego and MrUmpire, thanks for proving my point. And as far as wasting bandwith here, freedom of speech, and all that.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by spokanelurker

Long-time coach, and proud of it. Now merely an observer, and friend of the game. Byron, San Diego and MrUmpire, thanks for proving my point. And as far as wasting bandwith here, freedom of speech, and all that.

Please reference the First Amendment and then please tell us how freedom of speech applies to a privately owned message board.