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  #31 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 11, 2007, 05:59am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachJM
My experience is somewhat different than yours.
Yes, it is. And when you've umpired as many games as I have, which would be quite a feat in itself, then perhaps you would have a much different perspective. You will have worked many seasons of baseball, and dealt with every kind of manager, coach, and player imaginable, and will have noted a recurring theme concerning the behavior of the majority. It's not a small few who are rats, it's a small few who are not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UmpireJM


When I was a child, I would often play "pick-up" games with whatever kids in the neighborhood I could find. The games would often end chaotically, most commonly over an irredeemable dispute over whether a player was out or safe or some such thing.

But, in retrospect, I wouldn't say they were "meaningless wastes of time".
But they were what they were. Pick-up games. I played in pick-up games nearly every weekend until I stopped playing ball (and started umpiring instead). That is what MLB games would become without umpires, pick-up games. Nothing wrong with pick-up games. It would probably be a hoot for awhile to watch the meltdown, but it wouldn't count for much of anything without the order and realism that having an arbiter provides.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 11, 2007, 07:54am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spokanelurker
Iím startled by the degree of rancor expressed toward coaches on this site. Do the most critical of you truly see yourselves as guardians of the game, and coaches as its enemies? How do you justify all the name-calling (rats, cheaters, liars, child abusers, etc.) in the same posts where you paint yourselves as victims of similar offenses?
Rancor? Have you been around this board long enough to discern the emotional states of the various posters?

Umpires call coaches rats for a reason. Naturally, it's annoying when a coach comes to an official's board and complains that an official's call "cost him the game." Aside from being total sh!te, he's begging us to throw the official under the bus, based only on his biased account. What would one expect there, open arms?

Anyone who fails to understand how coaches "work" officials is either naive, ignorant, or insensible.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 11, 2007, 08:57am
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Long-time coach, and proud of it. Now merely an observer, and friend of the game. Byron, San Diego and MrUmpire, thanks for proving my point. And as far as wasting bandwith here, freedom of speech, and all that.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 11, 2007, 09:08am
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Well,

spokane:

Just maybe you're one of the tools that Garth has told us about in his wonderful stories of rats in Spokane.

"If players and coaches didn't lie and cheat you wouldn't need umpires."

Factual statement after working my 39th season I have documented proof of this.

This is an umpire site . . . when rats come here they are free meat.

Regards,
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 11, 2007, 09:55am
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Wondered how long it would take someone to make the Spokane connection with Garth. Love the name-calling, Tim--reference my first post! Again, thanks for supporting my point.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 11, 2007, 09:58am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives
Does that include the sandlot games everyone claims to remember with fondness? Those games had neither a coach nor an umpire yet I don't recall anyone claiming they were meaningless wastes of time.
No. Umpires are only needed once adult coaches get involved.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 11, 2007, 09:59am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spokanelurker
Long-time coach, and proud of it. Now merely an observer, and friend of the game. Byron, San Diego and MrUmpire, thanks for proving my point. And as far as wasting bandwith here, freedom of speech, and all that.
Please reference the First Amendment and then please tell us how freedom of speech applies to a privately owned message board.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 11, 2007, 10:06am
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spokane:

And "eteamz" would be a great place for you to go.

I do not understand why coaches think they have a value posting to an umpire website. It just makes me chuckle . . .

And spokane (species: ratamusamoungus):

" . . . and friend of the game."

Don't you dare think you have anymore of this understanding of the game than any of us.

Regards,
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 11, 2007, 10:20am
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Maybe just you, Tim, for one. Regards.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 11, 2007, 10:32am
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Man,

God I love the "ignore" function.

Peace at last.

I Love Turtles,
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 11, 2007, 10:53am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve
Newsflash Slick, most of us are or were ballplayers. To successfully umpire, you have to approach it from a different perspective than that of a player.
Newsflash Steve - the same applies to managing.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 11, 2007, 12:00pm
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I nearly fell off my chair laughing when reading the whole post about being guardians of the game. The job is an umpire is to call balls and strikes and ensure a game is played fairly - the second this job erupts into something more is where we get the big egos.

Like I said, I always teach my kids to respect umpires. In the same way you call us child abusers and cheaters, I could call you racists (Bruce Froemming) and power-hungry losers. I don't do that because I realize the majority of umps are in it for the kids and do not possess the attitude displayed on this board.

One problem, I think, with baseball is the lack of penalties. Officials from other sports have experience dealing with intolerable behaviour because they have varied penalties to apply that are not quite as severe as removing someone from a ball game (in the real world you can't just toss someone who upsets you). Also, remember that coaches have little power to control a bad or power hungry umpire (they do exist, I have read some of your posts about bad partners).

Coaches, although you may see them as rats, are the ones who are shaping youth by teaching baseball skills but also life skills. Umpires do not do that. Most coaches also do it out of a love of the game and a desire to work with young people - unlike you, they are not paid. It's a shame you don't respect that.

Over the years I have grown close with a few umpires who have called my games. I have told them about some of the posts and attitudes here and have found them to be equally disgusted. I encourage some of you coaches to do the same; you will realize this is a phenomenom unique to this board and the type of umpire drawn to such online discussions.

Cheers!
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 11, 2007, 12:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim C
Don't you dare think you have anymore of this understanding of the game than any of us.
Tim, you know the rules. Thus, if I needed to know something like how many feet ahead of the plate a player can be when bunting, I would ask you. You also know about umpire mechanics, substitutions, and perhaps a little bit about game management (although some of the folks on this board make me think otherwise).

An understanding of the game, however, also includes an ability to teach skills, deal with players, set strategy (offensive and defensive), run practices, improve a team's running game, decide when to bunt/hit and run, give signals to players, and provide an overall positive experience to anyone associated with a team. I would assume you have very little clue about these aspects of the game.

Don't you dare think you have anymore of this understanding of the game than me and other good coaches.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 11, 2007, 12:37pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spokanelurker
Byron, San Diego and MrUmpire, thanks for proving my point.
Point? You never made a point. Your first post in the thread was:
Quote:
Originally Posted by spokanelurker
I’m startled by the degree of rancor expressed toward coaches on this site. Do the most critical of you truly see yourselves as guardians of the game, and coaches as its enemies? How do you justify all the name-calling (rats, cheaters, liars, child abusers, etc.) in the same posts where you paint yourselves as victims of similar offenses?
That's 2 questions and an expression of being startled. Nope, no point there.

Do you have a point?
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 11, 2007, 12:44pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuck
I nearly fell off my chair laughing when reading the whole post about being guardians of the game. The job is an umpire is to call balls and strikes and ensure a game is played fairly - the second this job erupts into something more is where we get the big egos.

Like I said, I always teach my kids to respect umpires.
You truly have no idea what you're talking about. Let's take you at your word that YOU respect umpires and you teach your kids to do so.

Your experience and perspective is from that point of view. You make an amazingly faulty assumption that since YOU feel this way, most coaches do. Assuming, again, that you truly do believe what you say, you are, sir, EXTREMELY in the minority. Walk a mile in our shoes if you wish to presume that our assertion that MOST coaches are rats is false. You'll make it perhaps half a year before you realize that most coaches are, indeed, exactly as we've described them to you.
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