Throwing to a base

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

Does the rule apply only to first base (FED rules) that the F3 must be holding the runner on the bag to receive a pick off throw? Provided 3B is occupied, is it a balk to throw to F5 who is off the bag?

First base is the only base a pitcher must complete the throw to from the rubber without balking. I'm sure you already knew that. That means that he doesn't have to complete the throw at all to second or third from the rubber as long as he steps ahead of the feint; etc.

At first base the fielder must be near enough to the bag that he has a legitimate opportunity to retire the runner. Of course this leaves the call all up to your judgment as to whether or not F3 has a legitimate play on R1.


Tim.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

At first base the fielder must be near enough to the bag that he has a legitimate opportunity to retire the runner. Of course this leaves the call all up to your judgment as to whether or not F3 has a legitimate play on R1.


Tim.

By your logic, then a pick off thrown ahead of R1 (to the 2B side of R1) is a balk. Wait, no, F3 has a legitimate play on R1, no balk. No, that can't be, F3 is dove back to first; no, wait, yada yada yada

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by fitump56

By your logic, then a pick off thrown ahead of R1 (to the 2B side of R1) is a balk. Wait, no, F3 has a legitimate play on R1, no balk. No, that can't be, F3 is dove back to first; no, wait, yada yada yada

It's not just my logic. It's backed by very noteable sources. You really should get a few definitive resources and see for yourself.

From the J/R:

It is a balk if a pitcher:

11. Steps to first base, and :

3) Throws, but the first baseman, because of his distance from the base, is unable (or if the throw is errant- would have been unable) to try a tag against the runner at first.


Tim.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

It's not just my logic. It's backed by very noteable sources. You really should get a few definitive resources and see for yourself.

From the J/R:

It is a balk if a pitcher:

11. Steps to first base, and :

3) Throws, but the first baseman, because of his distance from the base, is unable (or if the throw is errant- would have been unable) to try a tag against the runner at first.


Tim.

That's one source, pardner, which addresses zip of the below, so try again.

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

At first base the fielder must be near enough to the bag that he has a legitimate opportunity to retire the runner. Of course this leaves the call all up to your judgment as to whether or not F3 has a legitimate play on R1.


Tim.

By your logic, then a pick off thrown ahead of R1 (to the 2B side of R1) is a balk, it's not near the bag. Wait, no, F3 has a legitimate play on R1, no balk. No, that can't be, F3 dove back to first; no, wait, F3 is not near the bag, or is he? yada yada yada.

"Near to the bag" has nothing to do with this call which was my point entirely. Legitimate chance to retire is the guts of this rule/call.

Your turn.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by fitump56

That's one source, pardner, which addresses zip of the below, so try again.



By your logic, then a pick off thrown ahead of R1 (to the 2B side of R1) is a balk, it's not near the bag. Wait, no, F3 has a legitimate play on R1, no balk. No, that can't be, F3 dove back to first; no, wait, F3 is not near the bag, or is he? yada yada yada.

"Near to the bag" has nothing to do with this call which was my point entirely. Legitimate chance to retire is the guts of this rule/call.

Your turn.

Ummmm.....

I believe I said the fielder must be near enough to the bag (distance) to have a legitimate chance to retire the runner or it's a balk


Roder says if the fielder, because of his distance from the bag, is unable to try a tag (legitimate opportunity to retire the runner) it's a balk.


I'm not sure what part has you confused.



Tim.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Ummmm.....

I believe I said the fielder must be near enough to the bag (distance) to have a legitimate chance to retire the runner or it's a balk.

Yes you did. It's a crap call. Next.

Roder says if the fielder, because of his distance from the bag, is unable to try a tag (legitimate opportunity to retire the runner) it's a balk.


I'm not sure what part has you confused.



Tim.

None. F doesn't have to be near the bag to make a legitimate play on R.

Your turn.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by fitump56

Yes you did. It's a crap call. Next.



None. F doesn't have to be near the bag to make a legitimate play on R.

Your turn.

Crap call? Maybe, but one that's supported by rule and definitive interpretation.

From the MLBUM:

The pitcher shall be charged with a balk if, while in contact with the rubber, he throws to the first baseman who is either in front of or behind first base and obviously not making an attempt at retiring the runner at first base.

Tim.