Rabbit Ears and Violent Dissaproval

[BigUmp56]

Where do we draw the line?


There was a post about Torii Hunter recently being ejected from the dugout in an earlier thread that got me thinking about how much we're to consider too much when a dugout goes on a tirade over a call.

If it persists after a warning and you're not exactly sure who it is that's raising Hell, who do you toss, if anyone at all?


Tim.

[kylejt]

If your warning went along the lines of "Skipper, I don't know who's doing the jawing, but I'm putting you in charge of making it stop", the answer is pretty clear.

[charliej47]

Over the years on a lot of different Forums I have seen this same thread come up. It has been answered in a lot of different ways.

I will answer it the way I handled it. This was a HS varsity baseball game between two rivals:

The bench was chirping about the strike zone and between innings I talked to the home HC and stated, "Coach, control you bench there will be no arguing of balls and strikes". That was all I said to the coach.

In the bottom of the 4th inning with 1 out, I heard the birds again. I called time. Walked over to the bench and the first person I came to I pointed and said "you, you're gone for arguing balls and strikes." The person standing next to him piped up and said "It wasn't him". I pointed at that person and said "You, you're gone for arguing balls and strikes." By that time the HC had gotten there form 3rd base and started yelling at his bench. I stood there while he talked to them.

The HC and I went about 15 feet away and had a discussion about bench conduct. I stated "Coach every time I have to stop the game because of your bench, somebody is going home early."

The HC went back to his bench and for the rest of the game his bench was very very quiet.

[tibear]

Had a junior game(19-21 year olds) the other night, batter up with a count of 2-2, next pitch is about an inch inside and I ball the pitch. Catcher was already standing ready to throw to third when I made the call. Pitcher gave me a look but didn't say anything.

Next pitch is up in the strike zone that the batter hits for a HR. As I'm standing on the third base side waiting for the runner to round the bases, the pitcher takes a few steps my way and says, "Nice home run you gave them!"

Firstly, I had to bite my tongue because I thought it was awfully funny how he thought I somehow threw that juicy pitch. Instead of snapping back at the player I walked over to the catcher and told him that if he wanted his pitcher to stay in the game that he should go out and talk to him and remind him who threw the homerun pitch.

Never heard another word all night.

[lawump]

High School.

Called a batter out on strikes. He argued as he was walking back to his dugout. I yelled at him, "that's enough."

He didn't say anything further....until...as the very first pitch to the next batter was on its way (it had left the pitcher's hand, but had not been caught) he yelled out from the dugout, "that's brutal!"

I called the pitch (very quickly...not good timing) "ball", ripped off my mask and tossed the little prick. His head coach didn't even say anything.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by tibear

Had a junior game(19-21 year olds) the other night, batter up with a count of 2-2, next pitch is about an inch inside and I ball the pitch. Catcher was already standing ready to throw to third when I made the call. Pitcher gave me a look but didn't say anything.

Next pitch is up in the strike zone that the batter hits for a HR. As I'm standing on the third base side waiting for the runner to round the bases, the pitcher takes a few steps my way and says, "Nice home run you gave them!"

Firstly, I had to bite my tongue because I thought it was awfully funny how he thought I somehow threw that juicy pitch. Instead of snapping back at the player I walked over to the catcher and told him that if he wanted his pitcher to stay in the game that he should go out and talk to him and remind him who threw the homerun pitch.

Never heard another word all night.

If the pitch was "an inch inside," I'd be ringing the batter up.

[rpumpire]

Originally Posted by tibear

Next pitch is up in the strike zone that the batter hits for a HR. As I'm standing on the third base side waiting for the runner to round the bases, the pitcher takes a few steps my way and says, "Nice home run you gave them!"

If a pitcher said that to me, I would eject him.

[insatty]

Originally Posted by tibear

Had a junior game(19-21 year olds) the other night, batter up with a count of 2-2, next pitch is about an inch inside and I ball the pitch. Catcher was already standing ready to throw to third when I made the call. Pitcher gave me a look but didn't say anything.

A pitch one "inch inside" is a ball? The pitcher had a legitimate gripe. Some times, it pays for the umpire to listen to the griping. After you hear it, then shut it down and consider making an adjustment to your timing and/or judgment.

[jkumpire]

"A pitch one "inch inside" is a ball? The pitcher had a legitimate gripe. Some times, it pays for the umpire to listen to the griping. After you hear it, then shut it down and consider making an adjustment to your timing and/or judgment."

Sorry, I disagree. My zone is my zone, and if the pitch is inside off the plate before the moaning, it's the same after the moaning. A good partner might tell you after your game it's too tight, but I'm not going to have any dugout change my zone...

[Tim C]

This is when I learn that "times change."

25 years ago an umpire would walk over to the dugout and clear it.

He would send everyone either to the far reaches of the DBT in the outfield or send them to the locker room.

Then the offending team could bring people back only for specific tasks (i.e. base coaches during their time at bat, or a pitcher and catcher to warm up in the bullpen, or a specific pinch hitter, etc.) and as any changes were made those people were then sent to join their teammates.

ONLY the head coach (manager) would be allowed in the dugout.

I remember those times warmly . . .

Regards,

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by Tim C

This is when I learn that "times change."

25 years ago an umpire would walk over to the dugout and clear it.

He would send everyone either to the far reaches of the DBT in the outfield or send them to the locker room.

Then the offending team could bring people back only for specific tasks (i.e. base coaches during their time at bat, or a pitcher and catcher to warm up in the bullpen, or a specific pinch hitter, etc.) and as any changes were made those people were then sent to join their teammates.

ONLY the head coach (manager) would be allowed in the dugout.

I remember those times warmly . . .

Regards,

What do you do now, Tim?

Dump the manager for not controlling his bench, or start dumping players until they get the message................


Tim.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Tim C

This is when I learn that "times change."

25 years ago an umpire would walk over to the dugout and clear it.

He would send everyone either to the far reaches of the DBT in the outfield or send them to the locker room.

Then the offending team could bring people back only for specific tasks (i.e. base coaches during their time at bat, or a pitcher and catcher to warm up in the bullpen, or a specific pinch hitter, etc.) and as any changes were made those people were then sent to join their teammates.

ONLY the head coach (manager) would be allowed in the dugout.

I remember those times warmly . . .

Regards,

Happened last year in North Dartmouth, MA. I was observing a friend working a UMASS Dartmouth vs Rhode Island College game (D3). One thing led to another. Finally, he cleared the RIC dugout. First time I'd seen it done since somewhere in the 1980's (when I cleared my last dugout).

[PeteBooth]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Where do we draw the line?


There was a post about Torii Hunter recently being ejected from the dugout in an earlier thread that got me thinking about how much we're to consider too much when a dugout goes on a tirade over a call.

If it persists after a warning and you're not exactly sure who it is that's raising Hell, who do you toss, if anyone at all?


Tim.

Tim I had this happen to me a few years ago in a tournament.

I FIRST give the manager the opportunity to "police his own players" but if he can't then I picked the first person I saw and tossed him.

NOTE: Some umpires told me to tell the coach that if he doesn't control his team to toss The Stud F1, F2 or clean-up hitter, however, I also do not want a marathon on my hands either so if F1 is throwing strikes and F2 is stopping EVERYTHING I am also not stupid (That's debatable) , therefore, I tend to keep those players in the game if I can.

Pete Booth

[Tim C]

Remember I said USED to do . . . times change.

In answer to your question:

After a bench had been cleared this made it pretty easy to identify the culprit that would comment.

We then would dump that manager (coach) and request for new blood to come into the dugout.

Tim, we found at upper level of baseball the action of "clearning the dugout" lead to far fewer ejections than just picking people.

Actually I have not heard of any umpire even threatening to do this is years.

Regards,

[lawump]

I always knew that Paul O'Neil was a RAT, but he is now a King Rat. I just watched this Torii Hunter incident again at MLB.com. MLB.com's video is the New York Yankee's TV network's (YES) feed, of which Paul O'Neil is the analyst.

Here's what went on.

Torii gets tossed from the dugout. O'Neil goes on and on about how umpires shouldn't go after a player in the dugout when that player is clearly just "frustrated" ("I mean Torii's having a tough series...") and how its wrong for an umpire to go after a player in the dugout and "cause a player to come out onto the field."

To his credit, the play-by-play announcer said (to paraphrase), "Paul, to take (Ron) Kulpa's side, maybe Torii was yelling profanities at Kulpa from the dugout. I mean he wasn't even the one at-bat called out on strikes."

Paul's response? "Whatever."

What a freakin' maroon. So in Paul's world a player can do anything he likes, including cussing out an umpire..."as long as he's in the dugout."