Home Run or Catch?

[waltjp]

R1, batter hits a long drive. R1 is off and running and has rounded second base when F8 leaps and catches the ball before he falls over the outfield fence.

Place the runner.

[mbyron]

Assuming that fewer than 2 were out before the play, R1 to third, but he must retouch.

[DG]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Assuming that fewer than 2 were out before the play, R1 to third, but he must retouch.

Cite a rule please, because I don't agree.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by DG

Cite a rule please, because I don't agree.

Cite the rule that you feel applies.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Assuming that fewer than 2 were out before the play, R1 to third, but he must retouch.

2B - 7.04(c)

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

2B - 7.04(c)

No way.

The runner must return to first on a caught fly ball.

First base is the last legally touched base in this situation.

He is awarded second base.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

No way.

The runner must return to first on a caught fly ball.

First base is the last legally touched base in this situation.

He is awarded second base.

Rich Ives,consider this.

With less than two outs and r1 off on the pitch the batter hits a long fly that the outfielder makes a great catch but does NOT go out play.

R1 halfwayto third has to beat a hasty retreat to first and beats the throw but the bal lis booted by the first baseman and goes into the dugout.

R1 would be awarded third base on the overthrow: two bases from the last base legally touched.

Under your previous interpretation he would have been awarded home, which makes no sense.

[jimpiano]

My apologies to Rich Ives.

It was mbyron who got the awarded bases wrong.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

2B - 7.04(c)

Right, by rule we award one base from his last, and since he's rounded 2B, that's 3B.

BUT, he must retouch on the caught fly, or he's liable to be out on appeal.

AND, once he retouches, the award is one base from 1B, that's 2B.

IIRC, enforcement changed recently for situations like this. But any way you do it, it appears you help somebody.

"You, go retouch, and then go to 2B!" -- You've helped the offense.

"You, 3B!" OR "You, 2B!" -- You've made it seem as if he does NOT need to retouch, which helps the defense if they know to appeal.

[Mrumpiresir]

When awarding bases, it is up to the runner (or his coach) to know he must retouch a base left too soon. I would never tell a runner to retouch. Simply say "You, 2nd base". If he fails to retouch 1st Base, he would be out on appeal.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Mrumpiresir

When awarding bases, it is up to the runner (or his coach) to know he must retouch a base left too soon. I would never tell a runner to retouch. Simply say "You, 2nd base". If he fails to retouch 1st Base, he would be out on appeal.

Right. Send him BACK to 2B (he'd already rounded). And then what do you say to the base coach who enquires, "Isn't that award 1 base from the last base legally touched?"

If you reply, "1B is the last base legally touched, coach," you've given the game away.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Right. Send him BACK to 2B (he'd already rounded). And then what do you say to the base coach who enquires, "Isn't that award 1 base from the last base legally touched?"

If you reply, "1B is the last base legally touched, coach," you've given the game away.

Second base was never legally obtained,by rule.

If the coach does not know the rules that is his problem.

The ball is dead on the player going into the stands. Runners are entitled to move up one base.

If R1 fails to retouch first and is appealed he is out.

Then you can explain the rule to the coach, or invite him to the next rules interpretation clinic.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Right. Send him BACK to 2B (he'd already rounded). And then what do you say to the base coach who enquires, "Isn't that award 1 base from the last base legally touched?"

If you reply, "1B is the last base legally touched, coach," you've given the game away.

So just say "Yes."

[soundedlikeastrike]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Right. Send him BACK to 2B (he'd already rounded). And then what do you say to the base coach who enquires, "Isn't that award 1 base from the last base legally touched?"

If you reply, "1B is the last base legally touched, coach," you've given the game away.

Time, you 3rd base, is what ya gotta call.

He's rounded 2nd, the award is 3rd. Not my problem if he doens't fulfill his obligation to re-touch (before he touches 3rd). I,m not out there too second guess if the D is gonna appeal, nor am I guessing the O isn't trying to steal one. Award the base and rule on the result/s.

Once everyone see's the out call on the catch, their supposed to know what to do, retouch, if less than two outs.

Would a runner fail to retouch if he was scrambling back to 1st to do so, when the ball went past the F3 and OOP, probably not. Even if you called "time" and awarded 3rd before, he had re-touched. Might confuse em, but only once, I'm sure.

They should also know the runner can retouch on a dead ball, as long as he hasn't touched the next base, after the ball is dead.

And if he does touch the next base and still goes back and retouches, I sure ain't stopping him there either, that's the defenses job to know he can't, and to make a proper appeal.

Not
Ump: "whoa there base runner where you going"?
BR: "Ah, back to re-touch sir".
Ump: "No you can't, because you've already touched the next base after the call of time on a DB".

Or
Ump: "You second".
BR: "But sir, that's a one base award, I already touched 2nd".
Ump: "I know, but you left early and have to retouch, so I can only make you go backwards, to the base you already touched, cause if I let you keep going, you'll still be subject to appeal at 1st.

Just none of our business IMO. Make your award and rule on any developments.