Babe Ruth Rules

[HandCheck7]

Got an email with this situation, just checking to see what the experts think.

Runner at second, 1 out. Fly ball to left fielder that is caught. Runner at second thinks 2 outs and runs to third. Defense throws ball to third and runner is tagged and BU signals safe. Reasoning is that the player is on the base. When ball is thrown to pitcher, runner goes back to second to tag up and ball is of course thrown away and runner heads back to third. The defense then wants to appeal he left early. What a mess this sounds like. Could the runner have been called out when tagged at third?? Thanks in advance.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by HandCheck7

Got an email with this situation, just checking to see what the experts think.

Runner at second, 1 out. Fly ball to left fielder that is caught. Runner at second thinks 2 outs and runs to third. Defense throws ball to third and runner is tagged and BU signals safe. Reasoning is that the player is on the base. When ball is thrown to pitcher, runner goes back to second to tag up and ball is of course thrown away and runner heads back to third. The defense then wants to appeal he left early. What a mess this sounds like. Could the runner have been called out when tagged at third?? Thanks in advance.

Sounds like an unmistakeable appeal to me. R2 out for failing to tag up on the caught fly ball.


Tim.

[Mrumpiresir]

Yes, Runner can be tagged on appeal.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by HandCheck7

Could the runner have been called out when tagged at third??

Wish I had seen it but let me ask this question - why didn't the defense complain when the runner was called safe at third? Just about any comment along the lines of 'but he left early' would have done it. I find it hard to believe that nobody, not a player, coach or manager complained about the runner leaving early.

I'm not sure I agree with Tim that this is an unmistakable appeal.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Wish I had seen it but let me ask this question - why didn't the defense complain when the runner was called safe at third? Just about any comment along the lines of 'but he left early' would have done it. I find it hard to believe that nobody, not a player, coach or manager complained about the runner leaving early.

I'm not sure I agree with Tim that this is an unmistakable appeal.

So if the umpire didn't think the defense was appealing anything, why was he signaling safe? He shouldn't have been signaling anything if he needed a verbal to go with it.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

So if the umpire didn't think the defense was appealing anything, why was he signaling safe? He shouldn't have been signaling anything if he needed a verbal to go with it.

You're assuming the competency of the umpire. Again, I would have this as an unmistakeable appeal. You don't need a verbal announcement here. At least I wouldn't be looking for one.


Tim.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

So if the umpire didn't think the defense was appealing anything, why was he signaling safe? He shouldn't have been signaling anything if he needed a verbal to go with it.

He had a play at third base - that's what he was signaling. Either that or you're saying the ump missed the runner leaving early.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

You're assuming the competency of the umpire. Again, I would have this as an unmistakeable appeal. You don't need a verbal announcement here. At least I wouldn't be looking for one.


Tim.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'd just like to have seen the play.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by waltjp

He had a play at third base - that's what he was signaling. Either that or you're saying the ump missed the runner leaving early.

I think I'll just go with incompetent and leave it at that.

[DG]

Originally Posted by HandCheck7

Got an email with this situation, just checking to see what the experts think.

Runner at second, 1 out. Fly ball to left fielder that is caught. Runner at second thinks 2 outs and runs to third. Defense throws ball to third and runner is tagged and BU signals safe. Reasoning is that the player is on the base. When ball is thrown to pitcher, runner goes back to second to tag up and ball is of course thrown away and runner heads back to third. The defense then wants to appeal he left early. What a mess this sounds like. Could the runner have been called out when tagged at third?? Thanks in advance.

If the ball was thrown in from LF to 3B and a tag applied on the runner from 2B and nobody said anything about him leaving early then I don't see how this can be an unmistakable appeal. If they said he left early while tagging him I have an out. If they immediately threw the ball from LF to 2B this would be an unmistakeable appeal because there is no other reason to throw it there. It's a cluster but there should be no way the defense shouldn't get an out here if they just throw the ball to 2B and say he left early. That they did not execute is their problem.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Sounds like an unmistakeable appeal to me. R2 out for failing to tag up on the caught fly ball.


Tim.

He said he wanted to see what the experts think!

[SanDiegoSteve]

The umpire in this case actually made the right call here. He called the runner safe at third base, which he was. The umpire is never to give away an appeal play to the defense. By not making any call, he quite possibly could have alerted the defense that something was amiss. Without proper appeal the runner would be safe at third.

The onus is on the defense to properly appeal. It is not the umpire's responsibility to read the defense's mind. The runner would have been out on the tag at third had the defense verbally (or otherwise made the appeal unmistakeable) said that they were appealing that the runner left early.

[mbyron]

I can see how this might not be an unmistakable appeal: runner trots over to 3B, throw comes in from LF just after him, quick tag applied as he goes in standing, ball thrown in to F1.

If the runner never made it back to 2B to retouch, the appeal would still be granted, even after F1 threw the ball away. (It's unclear in the OP whether he ever retouched.)

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by HandCheck7

Runner at second, 1 out. Fly ball to left fielder that is caught. Runner at second thinks 2 outs and runs to third. Defense throws ball to third and runner is tagged and BU signals safe. Reasoning is that the player is on the base.

This is what has me looking at this as an unmistakeable appeal. I read this as the tag being applied after the runner is already standing on third. Why else would the defensive player apply a tag on a runner already standing safely on a bag if not for the purposes of an appeal? I understand what you're saying, Steve and others, assuming the tag was applied during a legitimate attempt to retire the runner on a close play, but I guess I'm not reading it that way.



Tim.

[Jim Porter]

Folks, this play illustrates the concept of relaxed versus unrelaxed actions as outlined in the Jaksa/Roder Manual. Unfortunately, the original poster didn't give us quite enough information to make a decision about whether this tag of R2 constituted an unmistakable act of appeal.

If R2 is inactive and standing on third, it is relaxed action and the tag can be interpreted as an unmistakable act of appeal. The tag could not be mistaken for anything but an act of appeal.

If R2 is still in the act of trying to reach third base and the throw is on its way, then the tag can easily be mistaken for an attempt to put out R2 because he is in jeopardy. Therefore, it is not an unmistakable act of appeal.