Babe Ruth Rules

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by HandCheck7

Runner at second, 1 out. Fly ball to left fielder that is caught. Runner at second thinks 2 outs and runs to third. Defense throws ball to third and runner is tagged and BU signals safe. Reasoning is that the player is on the base.

This is what has me looking at this as an unmistakeable appeal. I read this as the tag being applied after the runner is already standing on third. Why else would the defensive player apply a tag on a runner already standing safely on a bag if not for the purposes of an appeal? I understand what you're saying, Steve and others, assuming the tag was applied during a legitimate attempt to retire the runner on a close play, but I guess I'm not reading it that way.



Tim.

[Jim Porter]

Folks, this play illustrates the concept of relaxed versus unrelaxed actions as outlined in the Jaksa/Roder Manual. Unfortunately, the original poster didn't give us quite enough information to make a decision about whether this tag of R2 constituted an unmistakable act of appeal.

If R2 is inactive and standing on third, it is relaxed action and the tag can be interpreted as an unmistakable act of appeal. The tag could not be mistaken for anything but an act of appeal.

If R2 is still in the act of trying to reach third base and the throw is on its way, then the tag can easily be mistaken for an attempt to put out R2 because he is in jeopardy. Therefore, it is not an unmistakable act of appeal.

[DG]

Originally Posted by Jim Porter

Folks, this play illustrates the concept of relaxed versus unrelaxed actions as outlined in the Jaksa/Roder Manual. Unfortunately, the original poster didn't give us quite enough information to make a decision about whether this tag of R2 constituted an unmistakable act of appeal.

If R2 is inactive and standing on third, it is relaxed action and the tag can be interpreted as an unmistakable act of appeal. The tag could not be mistaken for anything but an act of appeal.

If R2 is still in the act of trying to reach third base and the throw is on its way, then the tag can easily be mistaken for an attempt to put out R2 because he is in jeopardy. Therefore, it is not an unmistakable act of appeal.

I disagree. Absent any hint that the defense knows the runner left too soon the relaxed tag you mention could not be interpreted as an appeal. How many times have we seen tags applied for no reason, ie batter standing on a base and a relaxed tag is applied? All F5 has to do is say "he left early" when he tags him and all doubt is removed.

[Jim Porter]

Originally Posted by DG

Absent any hint that the defense knows the runner left too soon

C'mon now DG, let's be sensible. R2 starts out on 2nd base and he apparently thinks there are two outs when a fly ball is hit. R2 goes all the way to third without ever looking back. The fly ball is caught.

Everybody in the ballpark knows the runner left too soon. My grandma, bless her soul, in the advanced stages of her macular degeneration would've known the runner left too soon. It's not a question of a hint, it's a big fat two-by-four upside the head.

[Jim Porter]

As I read your response again, DG, I realized that you might've been talking in general and not referring specifically to the original play. If that's the case, my apologies, and this is how I would answer it:

My response was intended to be about the original play and relaxed/unrelaxed actions.

But also according to J/R, an appeal must be an act that is, "unmistakably indicated by voice, manner, or both." Even though it was written for professional umpires who work where meaningless tags on runners standing on their bases during relaxed action simply don't occur (never mind having the extreme rarity of occurring right at the moment a runner also happens to be in jeopardy from a viable appeal). . .

. . .I think we all can tell the difference between an honest-to-goodness tag, and simply a ninny slapping his glove around on the opposition for no apparent reason.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by Jim Porter

C'mon now DG, let's be sensible. R2 starts out on 2nd base and he apparently thinks there are two outs when a fly ball is hit. R2 goes all the way to third without ever looking back. The fly ball is caught.

Everybody in the ballpark knows the runner left too soon. My grandma, bless her soul, in the advanced stages of her macular degeneration would've known the runner left too soon. It's not a question of a hint, it's a big fat two-by-four upside the head.

Me thinks the DG was speaking in the general of things perhaps. DG?