Strange Play in Cleveland

[wish7694]

R1, F3 not covering bag. F1 throws to 1B and F3, well behind the play makes no attempt to reach bag. The ball hits R1 while U1 points to the pitcher for a balk. Seeing the balk called, R1 jogs to second base. For some reason the umpires huddle up and send R1 back to 1st.

It seems to me that the only possible explanation is that the crew decided it was not a balk, they probably felt F3 had made an attempt to cover the bag, though replays show he did not. U1 must have called a dead ball, and since they decided there was no balk they forced R1 back to 1st base. Is my understanding correct that U1 should not have called a dead ball regardless in that the throw was already on its way to first before any call of balk was made? Thus U1 screwed the pooch on this one.

Thoughts?

[bob jenkins]

Your description of the play is not consistent with the outcome. So, either the description is wrong (or incomplete -- may time was out) or the umpires blew it.

[lawump]

Originally Posted by wish7694

R1, F3 not covering bag. F1 throws to 1B and F3, well behind the play makes no attempt to reach bag. The ball hits R1 while U1 points to the pitcher for a balk. Seeing the balk called, R1 jogs to second base. For some reason the umpires huddle up and send R1 back to 1st.

It seems to me that the only possible explanation is that the crew decided it was not a balk, they probably felt F3 had made an attempt to cover the bag, though replays show he did not. U1 must have called a dead ball, and since they decided there was no balk they forced R1 back to 1st base. Is my understanding correct that U1 should not have called a dead ball regardless in that the throw was already on its way to first before any call of balk was made? Thus U1 screwed the pooch on this one.

Thoughts?

What half-inning did this occur, so that I may call it up on mlb.com and see it?

[ctblu40]

As described, this is not a balk. The pitcher stepped to and threw the ball to first base in an attempt to retire R1. He did not (as described) throw to F3 away from first base.

J/R has this to say:

However, it is not a balk if the pitcher steps to
(a) first base and throws over the base when the first baseman is not in a position to make a tag attempt.

Perhaps the crew felt that they put the defense at a disadvantage by calling the balk (i.e. F3 did not attempt to play on R1).

Who knows... but no balk.

[mbyron]

I saw it live. Victor Martinez (CLE catcher) was on 1B, no threat to steal, Howard (PHI F3) played back. The pitcher threw to the base, hit Martinez, and the ball rolled toward the dugout.

U1 (and possibly others) called a balk and pointed at the pitcher. As the ball rolled around, the umpires called time. PU pointed at Martinez and sent him to 2B.

F1 walked around saying "why was that a balk?" The umpires huddled, determined (correctly) that the balk call was erroneous, since F1 threw to the base. Since time was out, Martinez could not advance on the loose ball, so they sent him back to 1B.

Eric Wedge (CLE manager) somehow managed to remain in the game. The umpires screwed up by (1) calling a balk, and as a result (2) killing the live ball, preventing Martinez from advancing on the loose ball.

[mbyron]

Ed Rapuano was U1, and Joe West was PU. Joe let Wedgie bark for a little while, but there wasn't much to be done.

Not sure of the inning, but I think it was 7th or 8th.

[wish7694]

That makes sense that it was not a balk. It is VERY ingrained in players that throwing to an uncovered base is a balk, thus my initial confusion. It looks like at least U1, if not others also had the same initial reaction before recognizing the mistake. Clearly a mistake was made made in pointing and declaring a balk, but wasn't it another mistake to call time out and kill the ball before R1 reached second base even if they thought it was a balk at the time. It seems amazing (even if the correct rule book call on a dead ball that should not have been) that a pitcher could throw to first, hit a runner, have the ball bounce to the 1B dugout and the end result is placing R1 at first.

Note: I changed unoccupied to uncovered since it is what I meant and does not change my point.

[ctblu40]

Originally Posted by wish7694

That makes sense that it was not a balk. It is VERY ingrained in players that throwing to an unoccupied base is a balk, thus my initial confusion. It looks like at least U1, if not others also had the same initial reaction before recognizing the mistake. Clearly a mistake was made made in pointing and declaring a balk, but wasn't it another mistake to call time out and kill the ball before R1 reached second base even if they thought it was a balk at the time. It seems amazing that a pitcher could throw to first, hit a runner, have the ball bounce to the 1B dugout and the end result is placing R1 at first.

First of all, an unoccupied base is a base without a runner, not a base without a fielder.

Second, the mistakes were pointed out by mbyron.
(1) There was no balk infraction.
(2) The umpires declared "Time" before a fielder held the ball in the infield.

Third, although they made a mistake, R1 was left at first because that's the base he legally occupied at the time the umpire declared "Time." Likiewise, he was not entitled to advance to second due to action that occured during the live ball play.

Eddie Rap made a mistake, certainly not his first, probably not his last. Life goes on.

[wish7694]

ctblu -
I am speaking from the point of view of a fan and of the team that had to keep their player at second. I did mention in my parenthetical (which you left out) that it was the correct call based on when the timeout was inappropriately given.

I was just trying to confirm, which I guess you did, that a dead ball should not have been called even if it was a balk.

[wish7694]

He was at 2B and sent back to 1B by the umpires, resulting in Wedge coming out to argue.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by wish7694

He was at 2B and sent back to 1B by the umpires, resulting in Wedge coming out to argue.

Did the ball enter DBT or just roll into foul territory?

[wish7694]

Just foul territory

[mbyron]

As usual, the announcer (Rick Manning) couldn't figure out what had happened, and kept talking about an "unoccupied base" on the grounds that the fielder was not there.

Next inning, they were actually reading from the rulebook on air, though alas they couldn't find the relevant rule. (Rick read the rule about throwing to an unoccupied base, which made it seem as if the umpires screwed up by reversing the balk call.)