First Base Coach

[tibear]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Why is this not considered interference and someone called out? This was a deliberate act prevented the defense from making a play on the ball.

Peace

Both runners had already touched their respective bases by the time the coach touched the ball, R2 was running on the pitch and it would have been bang-bang at first if the ball had been caught. Who would you have called out?

[johnnyg08]

doesn't matter where the runner was when the ball became dead...bases in this sitch are awarded (might be awarded) from the time of throw by the infielder...which is defined as being where the runner was when the infielder (in this case) released the ball from his hand. I'm pretty sure on this...

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

doesn't matter where the runner was when the ball became dead...bases in this sitch are awarded (might be awarded) from the time of throw by the infielder...which is defined as being where the runner was when the infielder (in this case) released the ball from his hand. I'm pretty sure on this...

I'm pretty sure you are wrong. The award on a ball going out of play on the first play by an infielder is 2 bases from the runner's position at the Time of the Pitch, not the throw. If the ball had gone out of play, R2 would have been awarded home, and the BR awarded 2nd.

Tibear was correct in not awarding any extra bases because of the buffoonery of the first base coach.

[JRutledge]

First of all we can rule on anything not specifically covered in the rulebook. Secondly, if a coach purposely interfered with a live ball, I am not going to just kill the ball. I am going to penalize their team. I am going to likely get an out on a runner that was involved in the play or get the runner closest to home. Now unless you can show me a specific application in FED or NCAA that is what I am going to do (I do not care about OBR, I do not work games under those rules). I just do not think it is right to just let everyone stay safe for a deliberate act by an offensive coach.

Peace

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by tibear

I was pretty sure I was safe with not awarding bases. I was wondering if I should have called time. I know that if a base coach inadvertantly gets hits by a thrown ball, it is play on. However, just wondering what the rule is with regards to deliberate interference.

It didn't happen last night, but what would have happened if R2 tried to run home because of an assumed base award and the defense was able to tag him between 3rd and home.

Even bigger question, how would you score the out: F4-offensive coach-F1-F2.

The ball was dead when he stopped it intentionally - then decide if his interference prevented an out --- if so, call the out, if not, play is over. In the case you mention, if R2 ran home, he would have been doing so during a dead ball ... so you have nothing.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Why is this not considered interference and someone called out? This was a deliberate act prevented the defense from making a play on the ball.

Peace

It can be, if there was a potential play to be interfered with... like I said, he's lucky to not have an out called on this. But if there's no play to be interfered with, it's just a dead ball. (For example, say we have an F9 in place to stop the overthrow, and we have a runner still advancing --- I can see an out here. But with a "normal" overthrow of first, the interference did not likely prevent a play.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

doesn't matter where the runner was when the ball became dead...bases in this sitch are awarded (might be awarded) from the time of throw by the infielder...which is defined as being where the runner was when the infielder (in this case) released the ball from his hand. I'm pretty sure on this...

Johnny ... that's twice - why do you think there should (or even might) be any awards made here?

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

First of all we can rule on anything not specifically covered in the rulebook. Secondly, if a coach purposely interfered with a live ball, I am not going to just kill the ball. I am going to penalize their team. I am going to likely get an out on a runner that was involved in the play or get the runner closest to home. Now unless you can show me a specific application in FED or NCAA that is what I am going to do (I do not care about OBR, I do not work games under those rules). I just do not think it is right to just let everyone stay safe for a deliberate act by an offensive coach.

Peace

Interfering with a live ball is not necessarily interfering with a play on a runner.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Interfering with a live ball is not necessarily interfering with a play on a runner.

I did not say it was. But you have a coach that purposely changed the direction of a live ball. I am telling what I would do, if you want everyone to be safe that is your right to do that. If the rules committees want a specific application, then they should list a penalty or remedy for the situation. All the rules say in FED (I will have to look up NCAA) is a coach cannot purposely interfere with a fair ball on purpose.

Peace

[SanDiegoSteve]

I don't remember any specific rule set mentioned in the OP. Tibear can fill us in on what type of game this was. I usually figure OBR unless stated otherwise. I really doubt this was an NCAA game.

My feeling is that the offense was punished enough by not getting a base award that they otherwise would have. R2 could not advance past 3rd base, and the BR had to stay at first. Offense punished.

[johnnyg08]

I don't think I ever took a stance on an award...also, if the BR successfully reached 1B before the infielder made the first play...this would be a Time of Throw sitch...not a time of pitch...I agree with you SDS...on what you say about Time of Pitch...my most recent post (not this one) wasn't referencing the OP, when I reread my most recent above post, was rather unclear...but I did post assuming that the runner had reached 1B prior to Time of Throw...oh well...not fighting to be right/wrong/or other, just posting...

[tibear]

Being from Canada, we only use OBR. There are slight modifications for the different ages but everywhere in Canada uses OBR.

From what I hear about the differences in rule sets in the states I prefer our philosophy. When you watch a game of baseball, it doesn't matter where or who is playing, the rules are all the same. Makes it easier for everyone to keep things straight.

(However, last night I still had to explain why a runner was allowed to steal second on a foul tip! Bantam AA team (second highest level for 14-15 year olds), can't understand how some coaches still don't know the basic rules once they reach that level.)

[tibear]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

I don't think I ever took a stance on an award...also, if the BR successfully reached 1B before the infielder made the first play...this would be a Time of Throw sitch...not a time of pitch...I agree with you SDS...on what you say about Time of Pitch...my most recent post (not this one) wasn't referencing the OP, when I reread my most recent above post, was rather unclear...but I did post assuming that the runner had reached 1B prior to Time of Throw...oh well...not fighting to be right/wrong/or other, just posting...

Johnny, this would be a TOT situation only if EVERY runner AND the BR had reached their next base BEFORE F4 had thrown the ball.

However, in this case, it was a bang-bang play at first (but no catch) so the ball had been thrown before the BR had reached first.

[johnnyg08]

I see your bang, bang play reference...at 1B...no way is this TOT...yes, I agree...if the play was made by an infielder...which is on topic with the OP...I reread the PBUC ump manual on page 25...where there are three very clearly written interpretations.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

I don't think I ever took a stance on an award...also, if the BR successfully reached 1B before the infielder made the first play...this would be a Time of Throw sitch...not a time of pitch...I agree with you SDS...on what you say about Time of Pitch...my most recent post (not this one) wasn't referencing the OP, when I reread my most recent above post, was rather unclear...but I did post assuming that the runner had reached 1B prior to Time of Throw...oh well...not fighting to be right/wrong/or other, just posting...

Ok.... no stance (despite what you said above) ... I'll rephrase.

Why are you talking about awards AT ALL with regard to this topic?