Dead ball... Ball!

[tribefan1952]

I made a very unpopular call this afternoon. Dead ball... Ball! I'm interested in your feedback. Two good teams playing. Top of 6th. Bases loaded. 2 outs. 2-1 game. Tying run on 3rd. Batter gets hit by pitch. Doesn't move at all. He might have been frozen. Pitcher was throwing a lot of sweeping curves. I just felt that he stood and waited for it to hit him. I also thought he was pretty quick to drop his bat and begin running to first. Fans were cheering. I probably waited a little too long to call it and it didn't help that the coach from the defensive team was yelling about him not trying to get out of the way. I'm sure that it looked like he talked me into it, but he certainly didn't. I was planning to call it a dead ball, ball, from the start, but for some reason I hesitated for a second or two. Very unpopular call. Of course, the kid popped out for the 3rd out on the next pitch. He was really angry. He pitched the bottom of the 6th and gave up about 4 runs on several wild pitches. He also hit a couple batters (who did try to get out of the way... naturally I heard about that by the fans.) Finally, I told the catcher to go out and settle him down. I'm interested in your feedback.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by tribefan1952

I made a very unpopular call this afternoon. Dead ball... Ball! I'm interested in your feedback. Two good teams playing. Top of 6th. Bases loaded. 2 outs. 2-1 game. Tying run on 3rd. Batter gets hit by pitch. Doesn't move at all. He might have been frozen. Pitcher was throwing a lot of sweeping curves. I just felt that he stood and waited for it to hit him. I also thought he was pretty quick to drop his bat and begin running to first. Fans were cheering. I probably waited a little too long to call it and it didn't help that the coach from the defensive team was yelling about him not trying to get out of the way. I'm sure that it looked like he talked me into it, but he certainly didn't. I was planning to call it a dead ball, ball, from the start, but for some reason I hesitated for a second or two. Very unpopular call. Of course, the kid popped out for the 3rd out on the next pitch. He was really angry. He pitched the bottom of the 6th and gave up about 4 runs on several wild pitches. He also hit a couple batters (who did try to get out of the way... naturally I heard about that by the fans.) Finally, I told the catcher to go out and settle him down. I'm interested in your feedback.

Hard to say without seeing it. But if he had been waiting out a lot of sweeping curves, I'd probably have given him the benefit of the doubt.

My default goes to the batter.

[Al]

Originally Posted by tribefan1952

I made a very unpopular call this afternoon. Dead ball... Ball! I'm interested in your feedback. Two good teams playing. Top of 6th. Bases loaded. 2 outs. 2-1 game. Tying run on 3rd. Batter gets hit by pitch. Doesn't move at all. He might have been frozen. Pitcher was throwing a lot of sweeping curves. I just felt that he stood and waited for it to hit him. I also thought he was pretty quick to drop his bat and begin running to first. Fans were cheering. I probably waited a little too long to call it and it didn't help that the coach from the defensive team was yelling about him not trying to get out of the way. I'm sure that it looked like he talked me into it, but he certainly didn't. I was planning to call it a dead ball, ball, from the start, but for some reason I hesitated for a second or two. Very unpopular call. Of course, the kid popped out for the 3rd out on the next pitch. He was really angry. He pitched the bottom of the 6th and gave up about 4 runs on several wild pitches. He also hit a couple batters (who did try to get out of the way... naturally I heard about that by the fans.) Finally, I told the catcher to go out and settle him down. I'm interested in your feedback.

You made the call...forget about the fans! If you took a second or two to review the play in your mind and feel he made no attempt to move then you made the correct call. Don't second quess yourself after that. A slow call that is correct is better than a fast call that is wrong. We are not going to be popular with a lot of know nothing fans. It's those same fans that would be saying good call blue if the other team was batting. As far as being frozen... I doubt it! Good call!

[Toadman15241]

Originally Posted by tribefan1952

I made a very unpopular call this afternoon. Dead ball... Ball! I'm interested in your feedback. Two good teams playing. Top of 6th. Bases loaded. 2 outs. 2-1 game. Tying run on 3rd. Batter gets hit by pitch. Doesn't move at all. He might have been frozen. Pitcher was throwing a lot of sweeping curves. I just felt that he stood and waited for it to hit him. I also thought he was pretty quick to drop his bat and begin running to first. Fans were cheering. I probably waited a little too long to call it and it didn't help that the coach from the defensive team was yelling about him not trying to get out of the way. I'm sure that it looked like he talked me into it, but he certainly didn't. I was planning to call it a dead ball, ball, from the start, but for some reason I hesitated for a second or two. Very unpopular call. Of course, the kid popped out for the 3rd out on the next pitch. He was really angry. He pitched the bottom of the 6th and gave up about 4 runs on several wild pitches. He also hit a couple batters (who did try to get out of the way... naturally I heard about that by the fans.) Finally, I told the catcher to go out and settle him down. I'm interested in your feedback.

Interesting sequence in the ACC tourney yesterday. Wake Forest/Clemson. There had already been 2 or 3 Wake hitters that got beaned earlier in the game. Inside pitch to a Wake batter who drops bat and heads to first like it hit him. Ump calls him back, having judged it did not hit him. Next pitch clearly hits the batter. PU comes up and points to the box and tells the batter to stay, having judged the batter leaned into the pitch. Next pitch hits the batter again, and this time the PU awards first. One of the craziest three pitch sequences I have seen in D1 ball.

So, don't worry about making the call. It is a call that is really gut instinct, if you felt that was the propper call forget about it and move on.

[JRutledge]

This is one of those "had to be there" type situations. This is also one of these plays that takes place a lot but unless you have seen it a lot you might have some doubt if you did the right thing. This is also a play that no matter what you call someone is likely going to complain about the call. So I would not worry about it that much. I have made this call several times and usually it is a lot easier to call when the batter moves into the pitch. If the batter froze, then it comes down to your best judgment.

As Al said, fans are idiots. Ignore what they have to say.

Peace

[SAump]

OBR 6.08 (2) The batter makes no attempt to avoid being touched by the ball; ...

You did what you had to do. Depends how it happened.

I had a slow sweeping curve hit the bill of a batter's helmet. The pitcher had been throwing them four innings straight. I also told the batter to hold it right there. I figured he was stupid for not backing out of the way. He may have learned a very valuable lesson had the ball then bounded into his face. OC calls time to discuss the call and for me to ask my partner for help. Says it happened too fast for the batter to react. It may have curved in for a strike and the batter was trying to process this info.

I asked my partner for help and he agrees with the coach's version. I award the batter first and then hear it from the other coach for reversing a judgement call. Placed in this no win situation, I wished I would have never went to my partner for help. Dah. It played a role in the outcome of the game and it looked bad in front of both teams.

[tribefan1952]

Thanks so much for your sincere and qualified responses. I forgot to mention that my assigner just happened to be there watching the game. Between innings, I asked him and my partner about the call. Both said it was right. I wasn't fishing for comfort from them. I really wanted to know their opinions. I haven't done this for long and I really want to do the best I can.

This kid played varsity and has umpired for several years. I know him. I taught him in Sunday School. I took ump classes with him. That's probably why I hesitated. Very good kid. Very good ball player. I talked to him prior to the game. He caught about half the game before they brought him in to pitch. He's going to Purdue in the Fall. But he should have known that you must at least make a pretense of spinning out of the way. I had to make a call. Somebody was definitely going to be unhappy in this situation. I'll get over it. I hope he does, too.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tribefan1952

Somebody was definitely going to be unhappy in this situation. I'll get over it. I hope he does, too.

Now you are an umpire.

Peace

[newump]

how much effort do you require the batter to make to avoid getting hit? i've only denied a HBP if the batter actually did something to encourage getting hit - or if the pitch was actually in the strike zone and it struck a batter hanging out over the plate. i'm giving him the base even if he freezes and lets the pitch hit him. how can you expect a kid to hang in there against a curve ball if he has to worry about bailing out so the pitch doesn't hit him?

[DG]

Originally Posted by newump

how much effort do you require the batter to make to avoid getting hit? i've only denied a HBP if the batter actually did something to encourage getting hit - or if the pitch was actually in the strike zone and it struck a batter hanging out over the plate. i'm giving him the base even if he freezes and lets the pitch hit him. how can you expect a kid to hang in there against a curve ball if he has to worry about bailing out so the pitch doesn't hit him?

Any amount of effort works for me. But if he stands there like a statue or leans into a pitch he stays, and it doesn't much matter to me what kind of pitch it was.

I have had two this year. This first was in an early season game and he just stood there and let a hanger hit him. The manager argued with me that he didn't have time to get out of the way. I told him that he an I both know this pitcher is not throwing hard and he should be able to get out of the way of a pitch that slow. At the end of the half inning the manager approached me again, and said he had to argue the point because the boy's dad was here and he would be on his butt if he didn't.

The second happened last Saturday. Batter stood there like a statue and I kept him in the box. This time the argument from the manager was the pitch was so slow he couldn't avoid it. I said if it was so slow he should have had plenty of time to move. At the end of the half inning he approached me again, and was arguing his point, and I finally said, "OK you have argued enough to satisfy the parents now you can go on to the dugout". He just smiled and said "you must know me". I didn't but I know a lot of similar managers.

[tribefan1952]

I had one earlier this year that I didn't call. (i.e., I gave the batter 1st base.) 0-2 count on 2 called strikes. Both strikes surprised me. Sweeping curves... very impressive... The batter hung in there on the third one, but it didn't break. Catcher asked me (quietly & respectfully) if the batter has to try to get out of the way. I said that he does, but he was likely faked out of his socks... like he had been on the previous 2 pitches. The catcher chuckled.

[etn_ump]

I don't know. I judge that as long as the batter didn't move into the pitch, if the ball is in the batter's box, the batter goes to first. Any thing else is kind of rewarding the pitcher. The box belongs to the batter as long as they don't cause themselves to be hit. JMHO.

[bossman72]

The purpose of the rule in question is so batter's don't intentionally lean into the pitch.

Like Garth said, if you thought he froze, give him first. But if you thought he was waiting on it and got hit, keep him there. Benefit of the doubt goes to the batter.

[DG]

Originally Posted by bossman72

The purpose of the rule in question is so batter's don't intentionally lean into the pitch.

Like Garth said, if you thought he froze, give him first. But if you thought he was waiting on it and got hit, keep him there. Benefit of the doubt goes to the batter.

I don't try to read the batter's mind. If he made no effort to move he stays in the box, regardless of the reason. If he leans into one I will see that.

[etn_ump]

Personally, I don't care if he doesn't move or not as long as he doesn't lean into it. The batter's box belongs to the batter and the pitcher should throw the ball over the plate or avoid the batter. I'm not going to punish a batter that is HBP unless he causes himself to be hit.