Dead ball... Ball!

[DG]

Originally Posted by etn_ump

Personally, I don't care if he doesn't move or not as long as he doesn't lean into it. The batter's box belongs to the batter and the pitcher should throw the ball over the plate or avoid the batter. I'm not going to punish a batter that is HBP unless he causes himself to be hit.

The rules (OBR) say he should make an attempt to avoid getting hit, so what other rules do you not like and will not enforce? What you are doing is rewarding the batter for breaking the rules.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by DG

The rules (OBR) say he should make an attempt to avoid getting hit, so what other rules do you not like and will not enforce? What you are doing is rewarding the batter for breaking the rules.

And many other umpires do the same. It may only be the NCAA rule, but it's the best such rule out there.

[GarthB]

To avoid a name calling episode, I won't name the particular ML umpire involved, but I was taught that the unwritten rule was to balance the need for the batter to avoid being hit with his right to not expect a pitch in the batter's box. The suggested criteria was that if he "prepared" for the hit or moved into it in any way, keep him in the box. Anything else...send him to first.

[DG]

Originally Posted by GarthB

To avoid a name calling episode, I won't name the particular ML umpire involved, but I was taught that the unwritten rule was to balance the need for the batter to avoid being hit with his right to not expect a pitch in the batter's box. The suggested criteria was that if he "prepared" for the hit or moved into it in any way, keep him in the box. Anything else...send him to first.

Does standing still, not making any effort qualify as "preparing" for the hit?

[etn_ump]

Originally Posted by DG

The rules (OBR) say he should make an attempt to avoid getting hit, so what other rules do you not like and will not enforce? What you are doing is rewarding the batter for breaking the rules.

College aged pitcher throwing 85-88, throws fastball that hits batter in the middle of his back, batter turns his back to ball, is this trying to avoid being hit? Absolutely not. Turning his back on a ball coming right at him is not an attempt to avoid being hit. Do you give him 1st?

I do HS and Jr. College and I call it the way I've described before. You call it the way you want to.

And as far as..."so what other rules do you not like and will not enforce?", by standing in the BATTER'S BOX, away from the area the pitcher is supposed to throw the ball, the batter is already attempting to avoid getting hit. I will not reward a pitcher for hitting a batter unless the batter causes himself to be hit.

[Kaliix]

Originally Posted by etn_ump

College aged pitcher throwing 85-88, throws fastball that hits batter in the middle of his back, batter turns his back to ball, is this trying to avoid being hit? Absolutely not. Turning his back on a ball coming right at him is not an attempt to avoid being hit. Do you give him 1st?

If an 88 mph fastball is thrown directly at a batter who is trying to hit said ball, there is little if any time to get out of the way. There is barely time to get out of the way on close pitches, never mind those right at you. About the only thing you can do, once you as the batter realize that the ball is coming right at you is to try and turn and take the ball on the meaty part of the back so as to not risk exposing your face, ribs or the bones in your arms. You really can't get out of the way even if you wanted to, the best you can do on that pitch is to avoid taking it in a place that will do serious damage.

I really can't believe you would keep a batter in the box in that situation. Common sense says he moved, that is enough to send him to first. You are really being a **** if you keep him in the box.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by DG

Does standing still, not making any effort qualify as "preparing" for the hit?

It depends on the pitch. If it's a 90 mph fastball, well, how can he prepare for one in the back?

I don't want batters feeling they need to bail on curveballs, so unless it's clear that the batter knew it was coming and he turned into it, give him the base.

I had one yesterday like this and I would've kept the batter at the plate, but it was Ball 4. Stupid batter.

[DG]

Originally Posted by etn_ump

College aged pitcher throwing 85-88, throws fastball that hits batter in the middle of his back, batter turns his back to ball, is this trying to avoid being hit? Absolutely not. Turning his back on a ball coming right at him is not an attempt to avoid being hit. Do you give him 1st?

I do HS and Jr. College and I call it the way I've described before. You call it the way you want to.

And as far as..."so what other rules do you not like and will not enforce?", by standing in the BATTER'S BOX, away from the area the pitcher is supposed to throw the ball, the batter is already attempting to avoid getting hit. I will not reward a pitcher for hitting a batter unless the batter causes himself to be hit.

I would count turning his back to the pitch as "moving". If he stands there like a statue is what I believe I mentioned earlier warranted a stay in the box. In college the rules are different and he doesn't have to move to be awarded 1B.

What do you tell the defensive coach (OBR or FED game) when he complains that the batter did not try to get out of the way of the pitch, when he doesn't move at all? "Uh, that's a rule I am not going to enforce because I don't like it."

[Rich]

Originally Posted by DG

I would count turning his back to the pitch as "moving". If he stands there like a statue is what I believe I mentioned earlier warranted a stay in the box. In college the rules are different and he doesn't have to move to be awarded 1B.

What do you tell the defensive coach (OBR or FED game) when he complains that the batter did not try to get out of the way of the pitch, when he doesn't move at all? "Uh, that's a rule I am not going to enforce because I don't like it."

"Tell your pitcher not to throw it there and we wouldn't be having this conversation."

I'm serious -- I use this line at least once a year.

[mick]

Originally Posted by GarthB

To avoid a name calling episode, I won't name the particular ML umpire involved, but I was taught that the unwritten rule was to balance the need for the batter to avoid being hit with his right to not expect a pitch in the batter's box. The suggested criteria was that if he "prepared" for the hit or moved into it in any way, keep him in the box. Anything else...send him to first.

Thanks, Garth.
That sounds useable.

[johnnyg08]

Just don't bail out the pitcher for making a bad pitch...if the hitter doesn't lean into the pitch...he's going down to 1B...each sitch is different though and it certainly helps to see the situation.

[etn_ump]

Originally Posted by DG

The rules (OBR) say he should make an attempt to avoid getting hit, so what other rules do you not like and will not enforce? What you are doing is rewarding the batter for breaking the rules.

I would count turning his back to the pitch as "moving".

DG, you need to make up your mind. Your first statement says the batter should make an attempt to avoid getting hit. Your second statement says basically all the batter has to do is "move". Make up your mind.

What do you tell the defensive coach (OBR or FED game) when he complains that the batter did not try to get out of the way of the pitch, when he doesn't move at all? "Uh, that's a rule I am not going to enforce because I don't like it."

Try this:

"Tell your pitcher not to throw it there and we wouldn't be having this conversation."

Bottom line is, if the pitcher throws it in the batter's box and hits the batter, the batter gets first unless the batter causes himself to be hit.

JMHO

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by DG

...so what other rules do you not like and will not enforce?

I move we eliminate the use of this red herring from the board. It is tiresome, pedantic and contributes nothing to debate.

In reality, everyone, everyone chooses at one time or another to not exercise text book enforcement of one rule or another. That has nothing to do with specific, at hand, disucssions.

Second, anyone?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Second. All in favor?

[Cub42]

That is a judgemnt call, and someone will not be happy. You mentioned there had been a number of sweeping curves thrown. I will give the batter the benefit of the doubt when hanging in against curveballs. But I wasn't there, you made the call. Here are a couple of ideas to help you in these situations:
1)Whenever a batter is hbp, call " time, time" instead of deadball.
2) If you are going to hold a batter from first, Be very emphatic about it. Leave no doubt you are 100% positive. " Time, Time, Batter stays right here" You have to sell this. Call it right away also.
3) Never got to your partner, or to someone in the stands and talk about a crucial or controversial call. It will leave the impression you are having second thoughts, or are unsure. Discuss these after the game. This will prevent any uncalled for challenges in the future.