Ejection Fiasco - Need Comments

[tibear]

I also ejected a player the other night for throwing his helmet after getting picked off at third base.

Before I ejected I waited a second or two to see the coach's reaction. I remember when I was coaching one of my player's threw their glove after not liking a call. As head coach, I immediately yelled, "Time Blue. I'm removing # X from the game and replacing with #Y." The turned to my bench and said loud enough for EVERYONE to hear that his reaction was NOT acceptable and would immediately result in benching.

Had the coach done this, I wouldn't have ejected because the message had been passed and the result would have been the same. However, the coach did nothing so I ejected.

Some of you may take exception to the fact that I didn't eject regardless of a coach's reaction but in this case I think it is acceptable. If it was something like malicious contact or verbally abusing an official I don't care what the coach does, I'm ejecting. I guess my line for immediate ejection is somewhere after thrown equipment (again depending on coaches reaction).

[Junker]

Originally Posted by tibear

I also ejected a player the other night for throwing his helmet after getting picked off at third base.

Before I ejected I waited a second or two to see the coach's reaction. I remember when I was coaching one of my player's throw their glove after not liking a call. As head coach, I immediately yelled, "Time Blue. I'm removing # X from the game and replacing with #Y." The turned to my bench and said loud enough for EVERYONE to hear that his reaction was NOT acceptable and would immediately result in benching.

Had the coach done this, I wouldn't have ejected because the message had been passed and the result would have been the same. However, the coach did nothing so I ejected.

Some of you may take exception to the fact that I didn't eject regardless of a coach's reaction but in this case I think it is acceptable. If it was something like malicious contact or verbally abusing an official I don't care what the coach does, I'm ejecting. I guess my line for immediate ejection is somewhere after thrown equipment (again depending on coaches reaction).

I understand what you are trying to do here, and I agree that the message was sent to the player that throwing a helmet is unacceptable, but what are you going to say to the opposing coach when he comes and says, "I thought throwing the helmet was an ejection?"

[tibear]

Originally Posted by Junker

I understand what you are trying to do here, and I agree that the message was sent to the player that throwing a helmet is unacceptable, but what are you going to say to the opposing coach when he comes and says, "I thought throwing the helmet was an ejection?"

It's never happened but I think my reaction would probably be something like, "It's up to each umpire what warrants an ejection and I don't see the necessity in this situation."

I look at some of the "discussions" that takes place at Major league level and there is no way I would put up with the language some of those guys put up with.

Personally, I never swear and don't tolerate it in any game that I officiate. If I hear someone swear (and isn't directed at me) both benches are warned and that ends it. If a coach comes out to discuss something and swear, if they haven't already been warned they get one, very clear warning that their language is not acceptable and will not be tolerated. If the swear is directed at me or at a call then I eject immediately.

Each umpire is different and it is up to the coaches to live within those limits.

[Junker]

SECTION 3 BENCH AND FIELD CONDUCT
ART. 1... A coach, player, substitute, attendant or other bench personnel shall not:
m. deliberately throw a bat, helmet, etc.;
PENALTY:The umpire shall eject the offender from the game.


That seems to be more of a rule that an umpire's judgement.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by Junker

SECTION 3 BENCH AND FIELD CONDUCT
ART. 1... A coach, player, substitute, attendant or other bench personnel shall not:
m. deliberately throw a bat, helmet, etc.;
PENALTY:The umpire shall eject the offender from the game.


That seems to be more of a rule that an umpire's judgement.

Good point.

[tibear]

Originally Posted by Junker

SECTION 3 BENCH AND FIELD CONDUCT
ART. 1... A coach, player, substitute, attendant or other bench personnel shall not:
m. deliberately throw a bat, helmet, etc.;
PENALTY:The umpire shall eject the offender from the game.


That seems to be more of a rule that an umpire's judgement.

This must be a FED rule. In Canada we only use OBR.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by tibear

This must be a FED rule. In Canada we only use OBR.

It is FED. Is the OBR different? Sorry, I only work FED, I'm not trying to be an a-hole rules know it all.

[PAT THE REF]

Well Junker,
I'm too young to drink (20), but I did enjoy a frosty Gatorade . We did not discuss the play and he just "big leagued" me and wouldn't talk about it. As for another assc., I could but the guy I work for is trying to / promised me that within three years I could be working Juco ball. He has connections so I will prob. stick it out.
***************************************
Pete,
Yes, lately I have been having problems with some varsity partners... I dont know if it is me or them. I try to umpire the best I can all the time and sometimes, it backfires. I did a game this year and a veteran told me I was too "robotic" with my pivots, getting set too soon etc... And he was your typical smitty. In fact he told me to get set when the ball leaves the pitchers hand.
***************************************
To add to the confusion,
Tonight is the first night of a three night tourn. here in NJ for Memorial Day. For my 6 and 8 pm game tonight I was assigned the same partner that the above events took place (orig. post game). We will see about tonight.

I am already planning on attending Evans school this Jan. To see if I "have what it takes" to get into PBUC/Rookie Ball. There is really no "real" training here that can help me out.

Thanks,
Ill let everyone know how it went tonight

Pat

[Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by PAT THE REF

To add to the confusion,
Tonight is the first night of a three night tourn. here in NJ for Memorial Day. For my 6 and 8 pm game tonight I was assigned the same partner that the above events took place (orig. post game). We will see about tonight.

Not sure if he'll be at all receptive to it, but you should try to have some sort of pre-game with this partner. Discussing the previous game's situation will hopefully help somewhat, even if only to let you know to watch out for this guy during tonight's games.

[johnnyg08]

go get 'em...give us an update...

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

I really don't care anymore if you guys respect me or not. Many members of both this board and the Amateur Baseball *******s Association decided to treat me like garbage for no reason whatsoever. If you guys are going to treat me like a joke, I'm going to treat you like a joke in response. I think a big part of my being disrespected is the whole ageism thing that older umpires have going on. They believe that because they've been in the game for so many more years than some of the newer umps they are entitled to bad-mouth them. But trust me when I say that these people are usually the ones who talk a big game but cannot call a ballgame nearly as well as they claim they can.

Oh and by the way Ozzy, I emailed the link of that conversation of ABUA that we recently had to my assignor. He had some not so positive things to say about you.

I don't care what you or your assigner has to say. You have proved over and over that you are lazy, ignorant and downright stupid. It's not the age; I deal with young umpires all the time. You are a Troll and that is all there is to that!

Peace!

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

I really don't care anymore if you guys respect me or not. Many members of both this board and the Amateur Baseball *******s Association decided to treat me like garbage for no reason whatsoever. If you guys are going to treat me like a joke, I'm going to treat you like a joke in response. I think a big part of my being disrespected is the whole ageism thing that older umpires have going on. They believe that because they've been in the game for so many more years than some of the newer umps they are entitled to bad-mouth them. But trust me when I say that these people are usually the ones who talk a big game but cannot call a ballgame nearly as well as they claim they can.

Oh and by the way Ozzy, I emailed the link of that conversation of ABUA that we recently had to my assignor. He had some not so positive things to say about you.

Writing a post like a 12 year old in a snit really doesn't do much for your cause.

A problem that you're running into is that most of us here have worked with good 19 year old umpires who understood the game, the rules and umpiring. Age is not an issue. Maturity and competence are.

[DG]

It's not clear to me from description whether this is "carelessly throw a bat", which warrants a warning, or "deliberately throw a bat", which is ejection offense, except in my state where there are only 6 things that mandate ejection, the rest are bench suspension for the rest of the game. If this was deemed "deliberate" then it would be bench suspension, no paperwork to writeup and less severe than an ejection.

Every bat throw could be construed as deliberate but I tend to think of deliberate as throwing it at an opponent, which might lead to a fight, which would be one of the 6 things to get ejected, paperwork required.

On the subject of ejections, I follow the 3P's, personal, profane, or prolonged. It appears you allowed the coach to prolong by a wide margin. A calm discussion that lasts 45-60 seconds might be tolerated. A tirade would last less than 45 seconds. If there is a warning, it would be only one and it would be along the lines of "coach, you have 10 seconds" and if he don't get the message he's a dumb rat and can watch the rest of the game from the bench (suspended remember, it's not one of the 6 things to get ejected).

And your partner sucks.

[jkumpire]

Pat,

Your assigner is wrong, wrong, wrong.

If you thow a bat unintentionally/acccidentally, it is a team warning with ejection the next time it happens. Note that coaches know the difference or the rule here at all.

If you throw a bat intentionally, he is ejected, period.

This is in Rule 3 of the Fed book, but my books are not with me. FED has rules coverage for this situation, and I feel for you with your partner not doing his job.

I see someone quoted the rule ahead of me, and this is one place where FED has done a good job with the rules. IN HS baseball this needs to be an ejection.

I won't repeat everyone else's points here, but now might be the time for you to put this thing to bed, and learn from it. Gamemanagement is an art and science, and takes some time to learn. At least you have the guts to expose youself on a tough situation and get some heat for it. You show you got what it takes to become a good umpire.

Go get 'em.

[canadaump6]

I just got back from a game. Got creamed in the mop up inning I pitched. Thus I'm really not in the mood to hear you call me names or put me down. Give it a break for a day guys.

Garth, I thought you wanted to see me umpire.