Fair Catch Fiasco

parepat · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 27, 2005, 11:37am

Help

K is down by three with less than a minute to go. K attempts an onside(s) kick from its 40 yard line. K1 kicks the ball into the ground and the ball then bounds high into the air. R1 gives a proper fair catch signal at the fifty yard line and completes the catch. As soon as R1 catches the ball he is hit by K2 and fumbles. K3 Recovers at R's 45.

Questions.
1. What is the foul?
2. When does the play end?
3. What are the enforcement options?
4. Whose ball?

This play actually happened to us this year.

mikesears · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 27, 2005, 11:50am

Quote:

Originally posted by parepat
Help

K is down by three with less than a minute to go. K attempts an onside(s) kick from its 40 yard line. K1 kicks the ball into the ground and the ball then bounds high into the air. R1 gives a proper fair catch signal at the fifty yard line and completes the catch. As soon as R1 catches the ball he is hit by K2 and fumbles. K3 Recovers at R's 45.

Questions.
1. What is the foul?
2. When does the play end?
3. What are the enforcement options?
4. Whose ball?

This play actually happened to us this year.

Once the kick was grounded, R can no longer give a valid fair catch signal. R has commited a foul for an invalid fair catch signal. As soon as R completes the catch, the ball is dead. Because this is NOT subject to PSK, K can elect to rekick or they can decline and allow R to keep the ball at the spot of the RECOVERY of the kick. R is not given any protection because his fair catch signal was not valid. It would need to be a judgment call if K could be penalized for a dead ball personal foul.

Sleeper · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 27, 2005, 11:59am

NCAA - No foul. Fair catch terminates when kick hit the ground on the onside. K 3's ball on the 45. 1st and 10

jjrye22 · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 27, 2005, 12:28pm

NCAA:
As Mike wrote, the ball is dead when caught (after a valid or invalid fair catch).

The player signalling for the fair catch however does NOT have protection
It would be R's ball where caught (R's 1st and 10 on the 50) with no flag for illegal contact, but possible flag for Dead Ball PF.

James

[Edited by jjrye22 on Jan 27th, 2005 at 12:31 PM]

Sleeper · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 27, 2005, 12:35pm

Oops. You are right. The signal does kill the ball when caught or recovered.

stevesmith · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 27, 2005, 01:30pm

Agreed

mcrowder · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 27, 2005, 01:54pm

But K can take the penalty and rekick.

Sleeper · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 27, 2005, 01:57pm

No penalty in NCAA.

parepat · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 27, 2005, 03:49pm

I agree, however, can anyone point me to the rule that tells us to kill it on an invalid fair catch. I was only able to see that you don't stop it on an illegal fair catch (ie catch then signal).

Sleeper · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 27, 2005, 03:53pm

NCAA - 6-5-3-b -- A catch after an invalid fair catch signal is not a fair catch and is dead where caught.

Bob M. · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 27, 2005, 04:41pm

Quote:

Originally posted by parepat
I agree, however, can anyone point me to the rule that tells us to kill it on an invalid fair catch. I was only able to see that you don't stop it on an illegal fair catch (ie catch then signal).

REPLY: For Federation, it's in NF 4-2-2g: "The ball is dead and the down is ended...g. Following a valid or invalid fair catch signal given by any member of the receiving team when the kick is caught or recovered by any member of the receiving team beyond, in, or behind the neutral zone."

gsf23 · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 02, 2005, 01:17pm

I have another situation along these same lines, happened a few years back, NAIA football.

Team A punts and Team B signals for a fair catch. Team B receiver misjudges the ball and it bounces behind him. He turns and ball bounces right back to him where he grabs it, turns and runs it back for a touchdown.

TD or not? caused quite a bit of confusion on the field but the play stood as TD.

Theisey · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 02, 2005, 01:52pm

How can that play possibly stand as a TD?

Bob M. · #14 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 02, 2005, 02:11pm

Quote:

Originally posted by gsf23
Team B receiver misjudges the ball and it bounces behind him. He turns and ball bounces right back to him where he grabs it, turns and runs it back for a touchdown.

TD or not? caused quite a bit of confusion on the field but the play stood as TD.

REPLY: I wish there was a way to draw a picture of me with my jaw hanging open. How could anyone let this stand as a TD?!?!

gsf23 · #15 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 02, 2005, 02:13pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Theisey
How can that play possibly stand as a TD?

Well, that's what the fans and coaching staff were wondering as well.

It took about 10 minutes of discussion and back and forth to the coaches, but ultimately the play stood. The only possible thing I can think of is that the refs determined that a fair catch signal wasn't given.

I will say that the signal was a goofy one as it appeared the receiver realized the ball was going over his head in mid-signal, but he did raise the arm over his head a give a wave although it was fairly brief as he tried to recover to the ball.