Ejection Fiasco - Need Comments

[celebur]

Originally Posted by David B

On any play that a coach wants to discuss, you need to learn to state the rule. Example, play at second. "Coach the runner did NOT run out of the baseline, his baseline is established from where he is to the base. That's rule 8."

Let's simplify that one even more. The basepath/baseline is irrelevant until/unless there is a tag attempt. There was no tag attempt.

[johnnyg08]

if you dump somebody...make sure you tell the coach...and don't give him a pedestal to make a scene...you gave in way to much...eject, then file the paperwork. Sometimes you have to be seen as the bad guy in the eyes of a coach...simply because it goes with the territory...let us know how good you feel after you eject your first coach!

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by celebur

I completely agree. The thing that stuck out most for me is that "three specific warnings" were issued. That's at least two too many.

In my opinion, a warning is only warranted when an ejectionable violation has not yet occurred but seems likely to occur if not redirected. If the warning is not heeded, then he's gone. But in this example, the coach could/should have been ejected earlier whether or not a warning was issued (he physically touched the umpire).

One of my pet peeves is players/coaches who think they can get away with anything until they get a warning. I've tossed guys for swearing at me, and they then go ballistic and demand that they were entitled to a warning. They're not. If they haven't crossed the ejection line, I may issue a warning, but if they've gone too far, it's good night.

What IS it with these whining babies demanding that we give them warnings for everything? I'm not a traffic cop. I don't issue warnings except when a specific "warning" rule states I should (eg.: throwing at a batter, going to mouth, or similar rules that have warnings). And I'm not talking Little League, either! You wouldn't believe how many times coaches in NCAA D1, D2, or D3 think they or their players are entitled to some warning rather than an ejection.

You want a warning? Fine. Here's one: you swear at me again and I'll eject you again.

Idiots.

[PAT THE REF]

Ok everyone... Yes I am fairly new at this.. First "real" year of varsity (10 games), second carded year and seventh year overall. Never had real official training but did attend Evans Fl Classic this past year. Learned a great amount and tried to use it here. I know I gave too many warnings..

A few clarifications:
1) It was not a playoff game. This was a make up game that really didnt mean anything
2) My assigner just called me to discuss the matter. He told me what hot water I could be in and I will have to live with that.
3) He also told me that this is not the Major leagues, Minors or professional baseball. That I need to learn somethings about HIGH SCHOOL game management that are not the professional game. (Like ignore the kid throwing the bat)

Thank you for your comments and again I know that I should have written him up and the whole nine yards but my partner really threw me a loop during this one.

-- Pat

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by PAT THE REF

Ok everyone... Yes I am fairly new at this.. First "real" year of varsity (10 games), second carded year and seventh year overall. Never had real official training but did attend Evans Fl Classic this past year. Learned a great amount and tried to use it here. I know I gave too many warnings..

A few clarifications:
1) It was not a playoff game. This was a make up game that really didnt mean anything
2) My assigner just called me to discuss the matter. He told me what hot water I could be in and I will have to live with that.
3) He also told me that this is not the Major leagues, Minors or professional baseball. That I need to learn somethings about HIGH SCHOOL game management that are not the professional game. (Like ignore the kid throwing the bat)

Thank you for your comments and again I know that I should have written him up and the whole nine yards but my partner really threw me a loop during this one.

-- Pat

First off, playoff game or scrimmage game, doesn't mean that coaches and players can do what they please!

Second, you cannot get in hot water for going by the rules - you get in hot water by not following the rules!

Third, ignore a HS player throwing a bat (in anger)? Your assigner forgot to tell you one more thing - the fact that he is an a$$hole!

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by PAT THE REF

3) He also told me that this is not the Major leagues, Minors or professional baseball. That I need to learn somethings about HIGH SCHOOL game management that are not the professional game. (Like ignore the kid throwing the bat)

I'm VERY sorry you have to work for someone who thinks that a player throwing a bat in anger is something you should ignore. Please take it from the rest of us that he is wrong over the rest of the country.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by UMP25

You want a warning? Fine. Here's one: you swear at me again and I'll eject you again.

Similar to my line, "A warning? Okay, next player or coach who does that will be ejected too!"

[canadaump6]

I really don't care anymore if you guys respect me or not. Many members of both this board and the Amateur Baseball *******s Association decided to treat me like garbage for no reason whatsoever. If you guys are going to treat me like a joke, I'm going to treat you like a joke in response. I think a big part of my being disrespected is the whole ageism thing that older umpires have going on. They believe that because they've been in the game for so many more years than some of the newer umps they are entitled to bad-mouth them. But trust me when I say that these people are usually the ones who talk a big game but cannot call a ballgame nearly as well as they claim they can.

Oh and by the way Ozzy, I emailed the link of that conversation of ABUA that we recently had to my assignor. He had some not so positive things to say about you.

[johnnyg08]

if the guys in your associaion are to wimpy to stand up and officiate a game w/o integrity for the thoughts that a particular coach or AD will pull playoff games or something stupid like that...officials who are afraid to eject when players/coaches eject themselves, is just plain Chicken Sh in my book...I'm not saying that you go hunting for reasons to dump players/coaches, but when it warrants, that's why it's in the rule book...if that's how the assn wants to run, then find another group...it's not worth your time dealing w/ that BS.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by PAT THE REF

...Out of Play Throw Incident:
...I ruled “time” and awarded the runner second base. In my judgment, the pitcher threw the ball from the rubber and therefore awarded him only one base. After both base coaches were screaming that he stepped off, my partner awarded him third base. For every throw from the rubber from that point on, there was an argument/discussion that the runner should be awarded third. ...

This is where your partner threw you under the bus. The discussion with the coaches after the game only backed the bus over you again.

From this point on, your credibility was zero, which led to all of the other arguments, discussions, ejections, etc.

Yes, there were lots of things for you to learn from in this game, but the first one is get a new partner.

JMO.

[Toadman15241]

Originally Posted by PAT THE REF

3) He also told me that this is not the Major leagues, Minors or professional baseball. That I need to learn somethings about HIGH SCHOOL game management that are not the professional game. (Like ignore the kid throwing the bat)



-- Pat

He is right, but totally off target. You are doing HS, not the pros. Anything that deserves an EJ in pro ball deserves one in HS ball as well. However, there are a lot of other things that can happen in HS ball to earn an EJ that do not lead to an EJ in pro ball.

Also, you have no choice but to listen to a coach in pro ball. In HS ball, if I talk to a coach about a call for more than 2 minutes, the game is over because I have just forfeited the game to the opposition.

[johnnyg08]

I take more (a little bit) from adults than I would from a 16 yr old kid.

[PeteBooth]

Originally Posted by PAT THE REF

Ok everyone... Yes I am fairly new at this.. First "real" year of varsity (10 games), second carded year and seventh year overall. Never had real official training but did attend Evans Fl Classic this past year. Learned a great amount and tried to use it here. I know I gave too many warnings..

A few clarifications:
1) It was not a playoff game. This was a make up game that really didnt mean anything
2) My assigner just called me to discuss the matter. He told me what hot water I could be in and I will have to live with that.
3) He also told me that this is not the Major leagues, Minors or professional baseball. That I need to learn somethings about HIGH SCHOOL game management that are not the professional game. (Like ignore the kid throwing the bat)

Thank you for your comments and again I know that I should have written him up and the whole nine yards but my partner really threw me a loop during this one.

-- Pat

Pat what kind of umpire association do you work for?

First and foremost the association should "have your back"

Garth said it best

What kind of partner was this?

If memory serves this is the second thread in which you had problems.

The PU is the one who should have tossed this kid to begin with but he did nothing. It sounds like the umpires in your association let the "inmates run the asylum"

Also, you said a coach "touched you" That should be reported in a heartbeat.
Something sounds terribly wrong with your association as told by you anyway.

Pete Booth

[Welpe]

Pat, I had a feeling that your assignor wasn't going to have your back on this. I can't put my finger on it, but it didn't seem right reading your post. I honestly think you need to find a new association, this one sounds questionable at best.

Originally Posted by canadaump6

I really don't care anymore if you guys respect me or not. Many members of both this board and the Amateur Baseball *******s Association decided to treat me like garbage for no reason whatsoever. If you guys are going to treat me like a joke, I'm going to treat you like a joke in response. I think a big part of my being disrespected is the whole ageism thing that older umpires have going on. They believe that because they've been in the game for so many more years than some of the newer umps they are entitled to bad-mouth them. But trust me when I say that these people are usually the ones who talk a big game but cannot call a ballgame nearly as well as they claim they can.

Oh and by the way Ozzy, I emailed the link of that conversation of ABUA that we recently had to my assignor. He had some not so positive things to say about you.

[Junker]

I hope you went and had a really nice, cold one after that game. Here are my thoughts.

Did you and your partner discuss sending the player to third when you only gave him 1 base?

Great ejection on the kid for throwing the bat and you had the exact right thought afterward, the kid ejecting himself.

Make sure everyone in the area, especially the coaches know when you toss someone.

Once you warn a coach, either stick them in the dugout or dump them. Giving more than one warning got you in trouble.

Never fail to report ejections. Umpires should not care or even really know about whatever "personal issues" are going on with the player and coach. You tossed the player, you write the report.

Find a different partner to work with.

Find an assignor that follows NFHS rules rather than whatever rulesbook he's using where throwing a bat and a helmet are considered OK.

Above all, take this ugly situation and learn from it. It sounds like a really tough night and everyone has those on occasion. Learn from it and get better.